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  1. #11
    Schoolmaster
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Thinking laterally about compensation - instead of arranging proffessional indemnity or public liability insurance where blame has to apportioned - why couldn't there be accident/incident insurance arranged on one's own stupidity - all the contents of my house has accidental damage cover - and to my mind the risks are roughly the same for an insurer.

    If my opinions make me seem rather old fashioned - then damn good show - because I am, I was born when we still had an Empire yet later had to learn that all the guys that made it were complete barstewards to all the peoples we enslaved rather than educated and modernised. We gave away our jewel in the crown to placate negative opinion only to have our good friends the Americans nick the rest of our worldly wealth to pay for a war started by the Germans but left them top dogs.

    Sometimes I feel as though my chin has taken far too much of a battering.

  2. #12
    Veteran
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    Nov 2010
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    I struggle to understand why you have no doubt about the stupidity and lack of common sense in the person receiving the instruction, but somehow seem to be unable to accept that stupidity and lack of common sense can be present in an instructor.

    If stupidity or lack of common sense contribute to an accident, that person has played a part in making it happen- but that can be the instructor as easily as the rider.

  3. #13

    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Theocat View Post
    I struggle to understand why you have no doubt about the stupidity and lack of common sense in the person receiving the instruction, but somehow seem to be unable to accept that stupidity and lack of common sense can be present in an instructor.

    If stupidity or lack of common sense contribute to an accident, that person has played a part in making it happen- but that can be the instructor as easily as the rider.
    You have hit the nail on the head.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    As someone mentioned above, unconscious incompetence is a real problem for instructors, I work freelance and often have to cover classes and riding schools with people I have never met, horses I don't know, I have to make a judgement on what exercises and lesson structure is suitable after warming them up.
    If I took peoples word for what they were capable of I cant imagine the amount of accidents that might have been caused and that's where the problem lies, the instructor has to make a judgement about what is within the riders capability to keep everyone safe, that's your duty of care to the client, especially children who mostly think they are capable of anything!

  5. #15
    Schoolmaster
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Theocat View Post
    I struggle to understand......
    That'll be your problem then?

    .....why you have no doubt about the stupidity and lack of common sense in the person receiving the instruction, but somehow seem to be unable to accept that stupidity and lack of common sense can be present in an instructor.
    Take a look at the title of this thread: Instructor Insurance. There's a clue.

    However, facetiousness aside - I of course agree that climbing to the heady heights of Riding Instructor doesn't embue commonsense or intelect but it doesn't matter for the purposes of this thread. My own feelings should be clear - I'll outline them for you again. If you volunteer for the Army - don't whine if they send you to a war! If you get blown up while in the war - you have to realise that those who can't take a joke shouldn't have joined!

    Also consider the nitty-gritty of what we are talking of here - riding lessons. And a long way away from anything HRH The Princess Royal experienced most them! Homespun little equine heavens on earth held together with baler twine, fluffy ponies circling in the mud - and what amazing sums are demanded by these Instrutor types eh? I bet they're all millionaires!!!

  6. #16
    Schoolmaster
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    Dec 2017
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Farma View Post
    As someone mentioned above, unconscious incompetence is a real problem for instructors, I work freelance and often have to cover classes and riding schools with people I have never met, horses I don't know, I have to make a judgement on what exercises and lesson structure is suitable after warming them up.
    If I took peoples word for what they were capable of I cant imagine the amount of accidents that might have been caused and that's where the problem lies, the instructor has to make a judgement about what is within the riders capability to keep everyone safe, that's your duty of care to the client, especially children who mostly think they are capable of anything!
    You do realise that what you outline above is a fine example of Breach of Contract to such an extent that it's probably null and void?

    Depending on how you are booked - you go along to the client's premises with the intention of imparting your knowledge and skill. The thing is - how did the client hear about you and get the idea you could help them? If you ring folk up and offer your service - that's one thing but if the boot's on the other foot - it's quite another. You may well find it necessary to accept folk leading you on by overstating their talents but if you are offering a level of tutoring that the student is incapable of even appreciating - it's hardly your fault is it? In a pure contractual sense of anything I've been involved in - there's no contest - you could sue them! And what's more important - you'd win. I find the whole idea that you have to deal with incompetant or ignorant people who you fear would sue you for professional misconduct bad enough - but totally up the wall if you are agreeing with it!

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Ironically, I know quite a bit about insurance and it's history (oh booooriing!) It should interest the majority on here as I reckon blokes are few and far between. If you modern girls think you have a hard time - thank your lucky stars you're living now! You can own your own property, make your own money and you are your own person.
    All of you probably realise the pressure old time girls were under to marry - and become their husband's chatel - but even ones that were well-off by marriage could fall on real hardship if their bloke died penniless.
    So called Friendly Societies were started to look after widows, a group of well meaning people who would take money in on the "ASSURANCE" they'd pay it out if the payee died - the beginning of Life Assurance. Thing is, back then no one had any idea of how likely it was that any individual would peg out so this made them very cautious as to whom they let join in. A guy appeared but was refused because he was 40 - yep, 40, it was one foot in the grave back then! Luckily, he was a maths master and after getting the hump with his society, thought he'd try and prove something to them. He visited all the cemetaries and graveyards writing down the ages of the dead (though this is not "dead reckoning") and produced tables from which he calculated a sliding scale of rates - young folk paid less than the old to receive the same payout. He formed his own Society and it became vastly successful, so successful in fact, that it didn't need all the money it had taken in to payout claims - so he returned a share to each policyholder - where we get the idea of ENDOWMENT.

    So if you've ever wondered - you ASSure against an inevitablity (some day we're ALL gonna die!) but INsure against a probability - you hope it won't but your house could catch fire - and you could get sued by stupid people you're trying to teach to ride!

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Are you an instructor and if so have you worked freelance or in riding schools at all?

  9. #19
    Old nag
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Negligence implies a fault. Not usually a fault in picking clients either. I've been sued once. It wasnt successful as I wasn't negligent and it was a genuine accident. Had I been negligent then the insurance would have paid out to stop my employer losing his business. I do know other instructors who have done negligent things and the insurance has paid out on their behalf.

    Equally if you work for yourself insurance is a choice. You can choose not to have it an assume your own risk, potentially losing clients along the way, or you can do the responsible thing and have insurance and sleep soundly at night.

  10. #20
    Schoolmaster
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    Dec 2017
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    Default Re: Instructor Insurance

    Quote Originally Posted by Farma View Post
    Are you an instructor and if so have you worked freelance or in riding schools at all?
    I am not a riding instructor and have only ever been in a riding school as a fee paying client. However, I have been in the building industry most of my life which you might realise is one of the most contentious areas for insurance and compensation claims - directors of companies have found themselves being sued by people that have injured themselves while being on site illegally and other such nonsense. I am insured and have always been insured. This thread is really a lament at it all being necessary!

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