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  1. #51
    Veteran scats's Avatar
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    I have guinea pigs and am very careful that the only have access to their run in daylight hours when the dogs or us are about in the garden. At night they are locked in the top level of their hutch. They live in during the winter anyway.

    Foxes are opportunists, regardless of whether they kill for fun (I'm not sure a predatory instinct can be considered 'fun' really, but I'll leave that up for debate), if they can get access to something, they will.
    I think they are beautiful, but they are pests. If shooting them was a guaranteed way of instantly killing them, then great, but the speed these things can move at- it's difficult to get a shot like that.
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  2. #52
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    I wouldn't beat yourself up OP, some months ago a fox got in with some Humboldt penguins at a zoo and killed eight of them. ironically these birds are already listed as vulnerable. If a zoo can't protect their animals what chance do you stand?

    As for foxes not enjoying the kill, that's as maybe, they simply have an urge to chase anything flapping about and stop it. Perhaps the human equivalent would be bubble wrap, some people just can't put a sheet down until it's all popped which serves no useful purpose and renders the sheet useless. But is it enjoyable?

    Do foxes really believe they're creating a larder? That would be daft behaviour for a predator, leaving food for other predators/scavengers doesn't show forward planning and also depletes their own food source drastically. I've known people set traps and mount vigils after an attack but the fox doesn't return, not until they get some more live chickens that are capable of providing the fox with more sport.

    Hunting does not exist to eradicate foxes, it is just the most natural way to cull them so that numbers are manageable. This benefits not only pet rabbits but domestic animals, wildlife and the foxes themselves.

  3. #53
    Old nag fburton's Avatar
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Quote Originally Posted by Fellewell View Post
    Do foxes really believe they're creating a larder? That would be daft behaviour for a predator, leaving food for other predators/scavengers doesn't show forward planning and also depletes their own food source drastically. I've known people set traps and mount vigils after an attack but the fox doesn't return, not until they get some more live chickens that are capable of providing the fox with more sport.
    Apparently there's a name for this kind of behaviour - "surplus killing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing - which gives it a biological/survival explanation. So I don't think there's any need to use words like "fun" or "sport", except that they describe quite well how the behaviour looks to us.

    Animals may well get some kind of pleasure or "kick" from hunting and killing prey, separate from the reward of sating hunger. At least, it wouldn't make sense for it to be unpleasant for them. But that would apply equally well to a single kill, where the prey is eaten, as to multiple killings, where the prey are left or cached. Both would be "killing for fun".

  4. #54
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Quote Originally Posted by Fellewell View Post
    I wouldn't beat yourself up OP, some months ago a fox got in with some Humboldt penguins at a zoo and killed eight of them. ironically these birds are already listed as vulnerable. If a zoo can't protect their animals what chance do you stand?

    As for foxes not enjoying the kill, that's as maybe, they simply have an urge to chase anything flapping about and stop it. Perhaps the human equivalent would be bubble wrap, some people just can't put a sheet down until it's all popped which serves no useful purpose and renders the sheet useless. But is it enjoyable?

    Do foxes really believe they're creating a larder? That would be daft behaviour for a predator, leaving food for other predators/scavengers doesn't show forward planning and also depletes their own food source drastically. I've known people set traps and mount vigils after an attack but the fox doesn't return, not until they get some more live chickens that are capable of providing the fox with more sport.

    Hunting does not exist to eradicate foxes, it is just the most natural way to cull them so that numbers are manageable. This benefits not only pet rabbits but domestic animals, wildlife and the foxes themselves.
    If we are talking about killing for fun, then I suppose the dogs on a hunt would fall into this category too.

    Iím genuinely interested to know how many foxes were killed at an average meet? Iíve never thought it was a particularly efficient way of controlling foxes if they were only getting a couple of old/sick foxes each time out. Surely if you are only killing sick and old foxes you are just making it easier for the healthy ones to thrive?

  5. #55
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Quote Originally Posted by fburton View Post
    Apparently there's a name for this kind of behaviour - "surplus killing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing - which gives it a biological/survival explanation. So I don't think there's any need to use words like "fun" or "sport", except that they describe quite well how the behaviour looks to us.

    Animals may well get some kind of pleasure or "kick" from hunting and killing prey, separate from the reward of sating hunger. At least, it wouldn't make sense for it to be unpleasant for them. But that would apply equally well to a single kill, where the prey is eaten, as to multiple killings, where the prey are left or cached. Both would be "killing for fun".
    Sport: an individual or group activity pursued for exercise or fun. So the word is appropriate because this is exercise, it's exactly the same reason your dog will chase the same stick over and over again. It's a prey drive, a natural instinct, clearly more pronounced in some than others.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Sure, let's go tear some animals apart for behaving like the animals they are
    I have absolutely no problem with hunting (shooting) foxes in general, just as I don't mind people hunting deer, rabbits or any other animal, as long as it's done properly i.e. the animal dies quickly and humanely.
    But how anyone can insist that they love animals and still find it ok to hunt foxes by letting dogs tear them apart is just beyond me. Hope OP didn't mean that literally.

    That said, it is possible to make fences that keep the foxes out, so consider that before buying new rabbits... and be happy you only have foxes to consider. Where I live we have wolves as well, so even when fencing for larger animals, you'll need to consider predators getting in.

  7. #57
    Old nag fburton's Avatar
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Quote Originally Posted by Fellewell View Post
    Sport: an individual or group activity pursued for exercise or fun. So the word is appropriate because this is exercise, it's exactly the same reason your dog will chase the same stick over and over again. It's a prey drive, a natural instinct, clearly more pronounced in some than others.
    Yes, that's absolutely fine. The potential downside of calling it "sport" is it is liable to colour our perception of the animal's activity with our own ideas and feelings about sport.

    I think you meant "predator", though prey species will also find sport in practising escape tactics - presumably.

  8. #58
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Hunting never singled out the old and sick. The fit and well were just as likely to be caught on a good scenting day. It is entertainment pure and simple, except for places like the Lakes, Exmoor and Wales where hounds really are more efficient than any alternative. I hunted all my life and loved it, but there is no moral high ground about it, it is killing animals for fun.
    Foxes do not kill for fun, yes they create larders (if they get in a chicken pen they will bury the excess birds, often very badly so half of them still sticks out. When they kill your pets it is devastating but you may as well blame a politician for lying, it is evolution and what they do. It is always entirely our fault if we do not secure something safely enough.
    Shooting a fox with a rifle is far more humane than any alternative, they are standing still when shot and death is instantaneous, they die with no stress.
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  9. #59
    Old nag rara007's Avatar
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Iím just not all that convinced itís that effective? Weíd have whole days pre ban getting nothing. Itís a large area they hunt with some meets only being annual. Thatís that for the year then? Where I am thereís pretty much no livestock farmed other than some intensive poultry and pig units (no risk of predation there). I have show bantams and thereís quite a few smallholdings including the odd lamb come spring. I donít want a pack of hounds anywhere near my chickens (or overweight pregnant ewes as they are locally). Who are (were) they hunting for the benefit of? They occasionally do go onto the field where the chickens are as itís next to a public byway, theyíre yet to achieve anything beyond ripping the ground up (itís also our hay and then schooling field) and terrifying the birds. We have atleast 3 foxes within about 4 acres of the house, you wouldnít need to be a great shot to get them!

  10. #60
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    Default Re: I am now 100% PRO hunting

    Quote Originally Posted by Fellewell View Post
    Sport: an individual or group activity pursued for exercise or fun. So the word is appropriate because this is exercise, it's exactly the same reason your dog will chase the same stick over and over again. It's a prey drive, a natural instinct, clearly more pronounced in some than others.
    I've got whippets. They hunt for fun. They will catch rabbits etc then let them go so they can chase them again.I'm very lucky that neither of them kill anything. They've both been taught from tiny that you dont bite anything furry, although I'm not convinced its just that. The younger dog has definitely learnt his hunting behaviour from the older one. T These are both working bred dogs bred for generations to hunt so of course its instinct., but there is a huge element of fun.

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