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  1. #1
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    Default Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    Hello
    I am the Breed Committee Chair of the Cleveland Bay Horse Society of North America. I am seeking the following information, and I tried writing DEFRA but they didn't have any information.

    A member wrote us looking for more pedigree and more information of her Cleveland Bay she imported in 2002 from the UK to Texas. The database number does not seem to conform to the current UELN numbers as currently assigned. Also the number is not conform what is used by the Cleveland Bay Horse Society system.

    He (gelding) was foaled at Charlesworth Stud, Charlesworth, June 5, 1996. Miss Carol Kearton was listed as the only other owner (bought him through an agent). The sire may have been Balldrake's Pride.

    His British horse database national number was BHD0079527. "The Swamp Fox" (Henry) and believed to be TB x Irish x CB.

    Please let us know if you have any information or leads for this horse.

    Thank you

  2. #2
    Old nag ycbm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    Here's his BE record

    https://www.britisheventing.com/asp-...?HorseId=47194

    Unfortunate the British Horse Database at around that time allowed anyone to declare anything as the parentage of the horse and only after complaints from breeders did they require any proof. That database is now defunct.
    Small Print: The view expressed in this post is my own. You should take no action on any opinion given without verifying the facts for yourself. Like all humans,I can be wrong. Polite correction is welcomed.

  3. #3
    Old nag
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    He could be anything or anybody without accurate ID (DNA) as many horses were sold with a convenient passport! up until more certain ID methods were used is he chipped? .

  4. #4
    Old nag
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    As ycbm says the British Horse database allowed registrants to input whatever data they chose without any independent checks. So it did get used by people seeking to claim a better breeding than the horse actually had. And of course as a passport of convenience. You may well have figured some of this out already but here is what I can track down so far:

    Charlesworth Stud is not a breeding facility - it is in fact a riding school. It may have been a stud at some point - but the internet did exist in 1996 and I can find no suggestion of it ever having been a stud. Nor do they appear to deal in horses - although again they may have done in 1996. There are no registered breeders of Cleveland bays currently in Derbyshire (Where Charlesworth Stud is) according the the Breed society. There may have been in 1996 of course - I'm not sure if you have contacted then directly? Sometimes the human memory is the best thing!

    There is no registered Cleveland Bay stallion Balldrakes Pride - although he is clearly listed as the sire on the BE record he could be pretty much anything. I can't find record of him as a graded stallion nor can I trace any other progeny. It doesn't help that there was a racehorse also called The Swap Fox and he does have a full listed pedigree so efforts to trace the line tend to come up with his rather than this one.

    Probably your best option is to contact the Cleveland Bay horse society here. If the horse was bred here and is a pure bred rather than an outcross the likelihood is that someone will remember the breeder. Cleveland bays are very rare here. You at least have another possible rider / owner name from the BE record - although the main rider, Hilsman, appears to have been under 18 at the time (or at least competed in Junior sections) and has no BE record after Swamp Fox so I'm not sure how much further that will take you.

  5. #5
    Old nag Auslander's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    Charlesworth Stud has a Facebook page, and there are comments on the page that make it very clear that Carol Kearton owns/runs it.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    Thank you everyone. We will use all the information you found and keep looking.

  7. #7
    Sport horse
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    I think the stallion is BELDRAKE'S PRIDE, by Belfort (FR) ex Lindrake's Pride by Mandrake's Major.

    A bay thoroughbred foaled in 1989. 16.3hh. Reg. Weatherby's.
    He stood at Mill Bank Farm, Somerford Booths, Congleton, Cheshire, CW12 2JS in 1995. Owner of stud a Mr J. Sebire.
    His advert can be seen in the 1995 Stallion Book.
    There are no further adverts in later years.

    I can not find a horse named THE SWAMP FOX in any of the published BHD registers 1995-2000.
    I got a copy of the advert but am not able to post it here. It has a picture of him.
    Charlesworth Stud and Congleton is about 30 miles apart.

  8. #8
    Old nag ycbm's Avatar
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    Quote Originally Posted by Violet View Post
    I think the stallion is BELDRAKE'S PRIDE, by Belfort (FR) ex Lindrake's Pride by Mandrake's Major.

    A bay thoroughbred foaled in 1989. 16.3hh. Reg. Weatherby's.
    He stood at Mill Bank Farm, Somerford Booths, Congleton, Cheshire, CW12 2JS in 1995. Owner of stud a Mr J. Sebire.
    His advert can be seen in the 1995 Stallion Book.
    There are no further adverts in later years.

    I can not find a horse named THE SWAMP FOX in any of the published BHD registers 1995-2000.
    I got a copy of the advert but am not able to post it here. It has a picture of him.
    Charlesworth Stud and Congleton is about 30 miles apart.
    Julian Sebire still lives at the same address, I'm pretty sure. He organises the Premier League dressage at Somerford Park.
    Small Print: The view expressed in this post is my own. You should take no action on any opinion given without verifying the facts for yourself. Like all humans,I can be wrong. Polite correction is welcomed.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Seeking identification of Cleveland Bay exported to the USA

    I'm sure Carol would be very amenable to answering your queries if you contact her via Facebook. My sister used to ride at Charlesworth Stud many moons ago (in fact, she probably overlapped with this horse) - as has been said, it's actually a riding school but I think they did breed the odd foal (not sure if they still do). Although Carol is not a dealer she does occasionally sell on. I bet she'll be able to help, as it's a fairly small yard and doesn't have a large turnover of horses.
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