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  1. #21

    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    I've only really looked at the friesian modern vs baroque argument but am noticing more and more it's happening with a lot of breeds and it's a crying shame. Modern breeding seems to not only be changing the conformation and movement, but the temperament of breeds too.

    Whatever breed you go for, I suggest something sane, sensible and well put together.

    However- I say this as the owner of a Wessel baby

  2. #22

    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    Quote Originally Posted by tristar View Post
    it means they pinched our thoroughbreds, mixed them them up with their carthorses...............and now sell them back to us at exorbitant prices marketed
    as wb where in actual fact i think they should be called part tbs.
    lol
    RIP Muffalina - you were my dream come true, I will remember the lessons you taught me with the scars on my body and the love in my heart x

  3. #23

    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    To me modern type means they took a tough, wiry, beautiful, versatile breed and turned it into a flat backed, weak hind end-ed, straight legged, light of bone, swan necked, creepy bambi cartoon faced travesty. However I might be slightly prejudiced against 'modern' halter type arabs.

  4. #24
    Veteran UnaB's Avatar
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    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    With the friesian, breeders have adapted their aims to make a better all round riding horse as driving horses are not so popular these days. The modern or sports type may look a bit lighter but they are certainly not weak or long backed - they are supposed to be a fit, useful horse and therefore they are bred for that purpose. Its easy enough to find bad pictures of any type of horse, i've put some pictures below of modern type friesians, they look ok to me!!! I love the look of the baroque friesian, but in reality as a riding horse, they are not going to compare to the smoother ride of the modern type who's build is more practical for dressage and jumping. There are many modern type friesians competing in higher level dressage with great success We all like different things, theres no need to criticise what you dont like















    Last edited by UnaB; 24-02-11 at 01:57 AM.
    "As a youngster I would dream about what it would be like to own a great fine horse rather than the older and less gleaming but trusty steed I rode. And when I was much older I fondly remembered the great fine horse I had as a child."

  5. #25
    Veteran ischa's Avatar
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    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    I have to agree with you una B
    , modern types have been bred more sporty but are defently not
    weak , it's funny very few breeders or owners of banoque types are slating the modern types !!!!
    If the banoque types are so versatile and non excistant from genetic defects why try and change them ??
    Again people have different taste and compertion purposes
    So please don't slag off the modern types just because u have different tastes

  6. #26

    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    Quote Originally Posted by UnaB View Post
    I love the look of the baroque friesian, but in reality as a riding horse, they are not going to compare to the smoother ride of the modern type who's build is more practical for dressage and jumping.
    I have no intention to cause argument, and I don't like to wander off topic

    But as the owner of a baroque lad, I resent this comment and feel the need to defend it. You've only got to look at a baroque horse, whatever breed, to see they've got the physical makings to doing anything, including movements that need a lot of strength behind ie piaffe. And no-one will convince me that they can't jump.

    Referring particularly to friesians, you say it's opinion, but even the FPS actually admits to some of its approved breeding stallions having conformational weaknesses- particularly "weak backs" and sickle hocks- and that's taken directly from the mark sheet of a champion modern stallion. Not opinion, but fact. I'm not questioning their talent e.g. riding, driving, but simply saying that these conformational faults are being bred in, and it can't be good for the breed in the long term, which is why i personally don't like them.

  7. #27
    Veteran UnaB's Avatar
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    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaL View Post
    I have no intention to cause argument, and I don't like to wander off topic

    But as the owner of a baroque lad, I resent this comment and feel the need to defend it. You've only got to look at a baroque horse, whatever breed, to see they've got the physical makings to doing anything, including movements that need a lot of strength behind ie piaffe. And no-one will convince me that they can't jump.

    Referring particularly to friesians, you say it's opinion, but even the FPS actually admits to some of its approved breeding stallions having conformational weaknesses- particularly "weak backs" and sickle hocks- and that's taken directly from the mark sheet of a champion modern stallion. Not opinion, but fact. I'm not questioning their talent e.g. riding, driving, but simply saying that these conformational faults are being bred in, and it can't be good for the breed in the long term, which is why i personally don't like them.
    Where did I say the baroque type cant jump? I never said any such thing, but their build certainly isnt designed for jumping. This is why you see TBs and WBs competing at the highest levels of SJ and Eventing and not the baroque horses. My own mare is definately more towards the baroque build (she is a cross of the baroque and modern type but turning out very chunky) so I obviously I am not going to slate them as I think she is wonderful and a beautiful mare, she also has a very good jump. I hope to do some BSJA with her as I have mentioned on this forum before. But I wouldnt have bought her if I was aiming for top level competing in SJ or Eventing, i'd have bought a WB. Thats just facts im afraid Friesians are built very uphill, particularly the baroque type, and that does restrict their ability in higher level competition which is why the FPS is aiming for a more balanced, sports type horse. Im not saying a baroque friesian cant ever win at a top level, but it would be much, much harder for it than a WB for example.

    And you cant judge an entire "type" by a handful of stallions that have had conformation problems. If that were the case then it would be easy enough to slate ALL baroque friesians as there are some truely hideous ones out there. I have never read anywhere stating the FPS are breeding for weak backs or sickle hocks

    I just find it sad that those who like the baroque type cant just accept that whilst they dont want or like the modern type themselves, it doesnt mean they should run them down. The owners of modern friesians dont come on the internet criticising all the baroque friesians do they Its seems like some people with the baroques think their horses are better than other peoples, which is certainly not the case, it just means they are designed for different things
    "As a youngster I would dream about what it would be like to own a great fine horse rather than the older and less gleaming but trusty steed I rode. And when I was much older I fondly remembered the great fine horse I had as a child."

  8. #28

    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    If you read back, I actually haven't slated the modern types at all. A lot of modern types are very good at what they do, and some are very nice examples. No, they aren't my cup of tea, but neither are a lot of other breeds/types!

    I know they're never going to compare to WBs etc- but you made a direct comparison between moderns and baroques under saddle and stated that baroque horses "will never compare", which is what i took offence to.

    Putting ability and talent aside though, my main point, and this applies to all breeds actually, and is what i was referring to when i made my original post, is that what is seen, and has always been seen as "bad" conformation seems to be acceptable in these modern types- friesian or otherwise.

    The stallion i was referring to is a previous world champion- was suggesting that if this is what is deemed the best, then these traits are going to get bred in. I'm not saying that all modern types are conformationally rubbish- i was simply pointing out that if a world champ stallion has those traits and it's deemed acceptable for SUCH a high level of achievement, with thousands of mares/year are bred to him, it's encouraging those faults, which in the long term could cause problems in the horse.

    Preferences and personal agendas aside- do you think it's acceptable for a WORLD CHAMPION (ie the absolute very best horse of the breed) to carry those faults?

    Just an extra note to say as well- i know not all baroques are nice- i've seen some horrible ones!! Same goes for all breeds though, there's nice examples and not so nice examples.
    Last edited by AnnaL; 25-02-11 at 01:41 PM. Reason: add an extra note on the end!

  9. #29
    Schoolmaster friesian80's Avatar
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    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    I am confused to how ppl get a 'modern' look? Take the friesian, they were all baroque at one point so how do they get a finer type without introducing a different breed of horse?
    I know to get a minature shetland they breed from the smallest of standard shetlands, this often is the runt and the runt often has other faults and can have awful confirmation, however as its small it is used to produce offspring. Ive seem some shocking minature Shetland stallions, its like it doesnt matter about anything but height if its teeny tiny its used to breed.
    So how did we get the modern type friesian?

  10. #30

    Default Re: what does a 'modern type' mean

    Quote Originally Posted by friesian80 View Post
    I am confused to how ppl get a 'modern' look? Take the friesian, they were all baroque at one point so how do they get a finer type without introducing a different breed of horse?
    I know to get a minature shetland they breed from the smallest of standard shetlands, this often is the runt and the runt often has other faults and can have awful confirmation, however as its small it is used to produce offspring. Ive seem some shocking minature Shetland stallions, its like it doesnt matter about anything but height if its teeny tiny its used to breed.
    So how did we get the modern type friesian?

    I know in the past other breeds have been used to introduce "new blood"- i suspect (but don't know!) the leaner more modern friesians are derived from those crosses several generations back- think this is why certain lines of friesians are known to be "hot" too.

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