AnaTINSELtasia
Reged: 30/12/2004
Posts: 2699
Loc: Over The Rainbow
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I am not one to say anything to anybody about how they go about advertising any stallion etc (as that is up to the individuals concerned etc), but what I do hope (like many mare owners) is that people advertise as honestly as possible.
Due to this I decided to do a little "fact finding" exercise on some stallions in the UK, just for my own information, and came across an interesting find.
There is a stallion in the UK (that will remain anonymous) that has done some competition abroad, and is being advertised as competing at 1.20m. Well I contacted the relevant horse sport association for that particular country last week.......and low and behold was sent the full competition record for the horse in question (and I have to say the girl I was speaking to was just superb and very fast with giving me the information  ).
Sadly it turns out that this particular horse started competing at 1.10m before dropping down a level to 1m before returning to the UK, and never officially competed at 1.20m.
Therefore the point to this thread was to say to stallion owners - if you are advertising your stallions as having achieved a certain level in competition, make sure you have the evidence to back up what you are saying.
As I said above, I am not naming any names etc, as that would not be fair, but I wanted to bring it to peoples attention......as I wanted to show that people are willing to give very misleading information to mare owners. Also to say that it is not difficult to find out the competition record of any horse regardless if they are home or away.. 
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timo
journeyman
Reged: 02/07/2008
Posts: 88
Loc: kent
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surely if you feel the need to lie about your stallions quality, common sense would tell you its obviously not good enough!
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groomsbridge
old hand
Reged: 29/03/2006
Posts: 1195
Loc: Cambridgeshire
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As far as im concerned nearly every ad i read for stallions is like this but hey ho while no one polices these things it will carry on happening.
Eventing stallions are one of the worst offenders and Racehorses are even worse.
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AndyPandy
old hand
Reged: 06/02/2006
Posts: 838
Loc: Oxfordshire, UK
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Very worthwhile bearing in mind! Thanks C!
Unfortunately, a lot of stallion owner's do this with fertility data too... but it's near impossible to check up on pregnancy rates for particular stallions (except TBs)!
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keoffee
enthusiast
Reged: 29/11/2007
Posts: 231
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i have just found out this morning that the stallion i have bought is not a medium dressage stallion?? has only 13pt bd which is prelim, he has competed in medium but not as i thought a medium horse. (i think?) but its misleading. im a bit dissapointed but he is still a good school master for me and the odd foal i may get will be for me.
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imadq2
newbie
Reged: 07/03/2007
Posts: 26
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I think if he has competed at medium he is / was a medium horse and better for you that he is still in prelim points as that means you can compete at s lower level without needing to downgrade.
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FoxHOLLYfolly
old hand
Reged: 20/01/2008
Posts: 759
Loc: Thirsk, North Yorkshire
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Surely anyone who does this could be had for false advertising? Not sure if those laws would work on stud fees but if not they should!!
At least with my boy he was so cheap so we knew he hadn't done anything!!  It was a case of here he is, what you see is what you get!! We liked so we bought him!!
I won't be making any false claims about him, I don't see the point in it, if you get caught out bang goes your reputation!! Maybe I'm too open and honest but I'd rather be that way than a fraud!!
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Lead, follow or by all means to go in another direction... but have fun and enjoy whichever route you choose.... Life is too short, leave this world with a big grin on your face!!
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Touchwood
enthusiast
Reged: 26/07/2007
Posts: 324
Loc: Wiltshire
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Agree with the others that these things seem to happen on a regular basis.
Personally I just do not see the point in stretching the truth, you WILL be found out in the end, and your reputation will be gone.
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AnaTINSELtasia
Reged: 30/12/2004
Posts: 2699
Loc: Over The Rainbow
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I fully agree with you all. I have only probably touched the top of the iceberg, as I was doing it purely for myself. But I bet there are many mare owners who would not question what people are saying their stallions have done. They would not necessarily go and find out if that was true or not.
I just think its very sad to say your stallion had been placed several times at 1.20m, when its never even done it. 
I know that stallion owners will try and market their stallions to the best of their ability, but "the truth will always out" as they say.
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riviera
enthusiast
Reged: 29/06/2007
Posts: 312
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Unfortunately I think it is probably another case of buyer beware and just shows how important it is to do your homework on preferred stallions.
Like others have said there is a lot at stake if you get caught fibbing, its also a shame for the responsible stallion owners who are very careful about what goes on theri promotional material etc.
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magic104
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/04/2006
Posts: 3371
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They have done exactly that with a stallion I used except he is back in Ireland. He was not consistent at 1.20 & has been dropped back to 1.10 & below. He has shown no real form at Eventing either but seems to do ok at the lower level dressage tests. Not one to have inherited his sire's ability!! Yet he is reported as
"The son of Robert Splaine’s Coolcorran Cool Diamond was brought over from England where he had competed up to Grand Prix level in showjumping." Doesnt mean to say he got round though!
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Lord_Horatio_Nelson
old hand
Reged: 20/08/2006
Posts: 771
Loc: Anglia
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Quote:
As far as im concerned nearly every ad i read for stallions is like this but hey ho while no one polices these things it will carry on happening.
Eventing stallions are one of the worst offenders and Racehorses are even worse.
I'd be interested in an example from the "racehorses are even worse" category. It would not be defamatory to name names as you are obviously true whilst they are not
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ColourFan
newbie
Reged: 02/10/2008
Posts: 48
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I think it is the responsibility of every mare owner to thoroughly check with the official sources before breeding the mare to a particular stallion.
It is very common practice of stallion owners to 'over praise' their stallions or give out false information about registration possibilities and approval results.
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htobago
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 30/03/2007
Posts: 2183
Loc: Oxford and London
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That is really shocking Anastasia! Call me naive, but I did not know that people lied so blatantly in the their stallion ads.
And how stupid when it is so easy to check up on these results!
Are you absolutely sure that this is a deliberate lie - I mean, that there is no possible ambiguity either in the record or in the wording of the ad or anything? Could the horse maybe have improved since returning to the UK and competed at 1.20 over here, or something?
Or could there be a 'translation' problem? Someone on here (I think it was on here) recently claimed their horse was competing 'Advanced Medium' dressage in Germany (or somewhere) and it turned out to be a 'translation' problem - the grade she thought was equivalent to Advanced Medium was in fact more like Novice. An innocent mistake - the person did not intend to mislead anyone.
Sorry - clutching at straws - it just seems so extraordinary to me that someone would tell such a blatant falsehood! I keep thinking there must surely be some mistake.  
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groomsbridge
old hand
Reged: 29/03/2006
Posts: 1195
Loc: Cambridgeshire
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Heres one for starters although obviously not a famous stallion but its just that he isnt a 1/2 brother to the stallions stated but by the same stallion which is one of my real bug bears.
It has to be out of the same mare to be a 1/2 sibling.
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_15324.html
Actually to be fair most of the info on most of the ads is just being economical with the truth.
Like the ads that say stallion is registered with such and such society so people think it is graded with them when actually it is not.
The racing folk mostly just use poetic license it just amuses me that there can be so many champion two year olds in one year but they just qoute from differant statistics to suit themselves.
I'm not going to get to involved with this as it only causes grief and there is enough of that with some studs anyway.
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AnaTINSELtasia
Reged: 30/12/2004
Posts: 2699
Loc: Over The Rainbow
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Quote:
That is really shocking Anastasia! Call me naive, but I did not know that people lied so blatantly in the their stallion ads.
And how stupid when it is so easy to check up on these results!
Are you absolutely sure that this is a deliberate lie - I mean, that there is no possible ambiguity either in the record or in the wording of the ad or anything? Could the horse maybe have improved since returning to the UK and competed at 1.20 over here, or something?
Or could there be a 'translation' problem? Someone on here (I think it was on here) recently claimed their horse was competing 'Advanced Medium' dressage in Germany (or somewhere) and it turned out to be a 'translation' problem - the grade she thought was equivalent to Advanced Medium was in fact more like Novice. An innocent mistake - the person did not intend to mislead anyone.
Sorry - clutching at straws - it just seems so extraordinary to me that someone would tell such a blatant falsehood! I keep thinking there must surely be some mistake.
Bless you...........you always see the best in everyone...thats the one thing I think is fantastic about you Kt.. 
No ambiguity at all I am afraid. The results were very clear, and I double checked at what height each level was. I have also checked the affiliated records since his return to the UK and he has not been out competing. And on the webpage I seen it definately stated that the results were achieved in the other country, so the owner has stated that themselves.
As I said above, I was only doing a small thing for myself to see what results some stallions had actually achieved against what they are advertised as having achieved.
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Breeze_mum
enthusiast
Reged: 15/09/2008
Posts: 318
Loc: Berkshire
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it's so confusing, I would have thought "same stallion same mare" would have made it a full brother or sister. so it would only be half brother or sister? Is there any reason why that is? I would hate to give the same wrong information on any of my ads, but that is how I would have advertised the offspring if I had used the same stallion and mare - or have I misunderstood?...as I said on a previous post, this breeding is a minefield
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Lord_Horatio_Nelson
old hand
Reged: 20/08/2006
Posts: 771
Loc: Anglia
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Quote:
Heres one for starters although obviously not a famous stallion but its just that he isnt a 1/2 brother to the stallions stated but by the same stallion which is one of my real bug bears.
It has to be out of the same mare to be a 1/2 sibling.
http://www.stallionsonline.co.uk/stallion_15324.html
Actually to be fair most of the info on most of the ads is just being economical with the truth.
Like the ads that say stallion is registered with such and such society so people think it is graded with them when actually it is not.
The racing folk mostly just use poetic license it just amuses me that there can be so many champion two year olds in one year but they just qoute from differant statistics to suit themselves.
I'm not going to get to involved with this as it only causes grief and there is enough of that with some studs anyway.
I totally agree with you on the 1/2 sibling debate sallyf. That is ridiculous to call them 1/2 brothers. In that case some of the Irish jump stallions that cover and produce 300+ foals each year's offspring are all 1/2 brothers...
On the Champion 2 year old front etc. there does appear to be a lot of smaller racing countries that have Champions and they haven't even won a race! I guess that like you say they have won more money. Each one that advertise as being Champion's should be in the official racing statistics for that year in that country. I guess the majority are advertising for non-racing purposes?
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DAHH
member
Reged: 14/09/2007
Posts: 181
Loc: Oxfordshire and Normandie
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Quote:
it's so confusing, I would have thought "same stallion same mare" would have made it a full brother or sister. so it would only be half brother or sister? Is there any reason why that is? I would hate to give the same wrong information on any of my ads, but that is how I would have advertised the offspring if I had used the same stallion and mare - or have I misunderstood?...as I said on a previous post, this breeding is a minefield
Same stallion and same mare = full brother/ sister
Different stallion but same mare = half brother/ sister
Same stallion but different mare = Nothing!
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Bananaman
Reged: 23/03/2003
Posts: 2688
Loc: East Anglia
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You are right........same stallion, same mare would indeed mean full brother or sister.
It is generally understood in equine breeding terms that 'half brother/sister' is 'out of the same mare as' and not 'by the same stalliopn as'. I've always presumed it is because otherwise there could potentially be hundreds or possibly thousands of 'half brothers/sisters but if I'm incorrect hopefully someone more wisely will put me straight!
Keoffee, I have to agree that you have a result rather than a disappointment! Providing he has indeed competed at BD Medium and knows all the moves etc. you do have a 'Medium' horse. A bonus that if you want to compete at the lower levels you do not have to pay to downgrade him or ride in the open sections, unless your rider group dictates otherwise.
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