kerilli
Reged: 01/04/2002
Posts: 7955
Loc: South Lincs
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acc to H&H report, "course designer Mark Phillips confirmed that the mushrooms will be scrapped next year."
I'm still going to write a letter, to try to ensure that single mushrooms (and other skinnies with middle higher than sides) are banned permanently from all courses. Too many good horses fell badly, and while I know that riders should take into account the conditions, approach etc etc, they can't tell the horse how high it needs to jump - its eyes and judgement do that, and I think they were being tricked.
Rant over. Glad everyone's home safe and sound. Maybe Zara had a rant at her dad about it!  She'd be justified, looked as if she got very squashed.
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"Ride as if you are competing, every day. At competitions, ride as if you are at home."
"Violence begins where knowledge ends" - Abraham Lincoln
"Remember, the horse has no bad intentions, he only reacts." - Dr Gerd Heuschmann
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full public view. (isn't that Eventing for you!)
thanks to Mel85 for the siggy!
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Rudolph
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 08/04/2008
Posts: 2072
Loc: Glos
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So how many people fell there..cs there seemed to be loads. Do yuu know them all?
Thank god that there gone.
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Thank You Brontie  Formerly FunkyFillyFizz! Being Rudolph for Christmas
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Original_Sin
addict
Reged: 11/06/2007
Posts: 687
Loc: Lincolnshire
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Thats definitely a good thing ,hardly saw a good clean jump through there.
Would of thought a lot of riders would of complained about it and very justified too!
Will look forward to reading your letter!
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Formerly EventingMad
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kerilli
Reged: 01/04/2002
Posts: 7955
Loc: South Lincs
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5 fell there today, all nasty horse falls and nearly rolled on rider, 4 towards the end of the course. At least 3 people had similar nasty falls there last year, possibly more.
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"Ride as if you are competing, every day. At competitions, ride as if you are at home."
"Violence begins where knowledge ends" - Abraham Lincoln
"Remember, the horse has no bad intentions, he only reacts." - Dr Gerd Heuschmann
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full public view. (isn't that Eventing for you!)
thanks to Mel85 for the siggy!
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Fiona
Reged: 14/07/2001
Posts: 3087
Loc: N. Ireland
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I would have loved to get a view from the take off side, were they dressed properly with a proper groundline, and what was the ground like - that was definitely the wettest part of the course.
The soft ground on the landing side didn't help, I think a couple might have recovered their footing if the ground had been better.
Glad to hear they're gone for next year.
Fiona
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TableDancer
old hand
Reged: 20/02/2008
Posts: 747
Loc: Monmouthshire
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Totally agree with you - I was terrified as each rider approached it. Have to say, th ough the German girl had it coming - trot approach???  
Thank goodness everyone seems ok -and delighted about WFP and Tam - hope all well overnight and here's to a good competition tomorrow  PS Gutted for Lucy W though 
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eventing_chick
addict
Reged: 01/05/2007
Posts: 434
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Am so glad, Bloody awful fences, watching it i think both horses and riders lucky not to be seriously hurt.
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kerilli
Reged: 01/04/2002
Posts: 7955
Loc: South Lincs
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yes, the tiring horse should have been pulled up, but some who fell there looked great to that point, and Laura was one of them.
whatever the ground and approach are like, the riders can take them into account as much as possible but they can't tell the horse how high to jump, his eyes and judgement do this and i am positive that the curve of the mushroom was deceiving the horses into thinking it was 3" lower than it was.
very very glad everyone's okay.
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"Ride as if you are competing, every day. At competitions, ride as if you are at home."
"Violence begins where knowledge ends" - Abraham Lincoln
"Remember, the horse has no bad intentions, he only reacts." - Dr Gerd Heuschmann
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full public view. (isn't that Eventing for you!)
thanks to Mel85 for the siggy!
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TableDancer
old hand
Reged: 20/02/2008
Posts: 747
Loc: Monmouthshire
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agree with all that.
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teapot
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 16/12/2005
Posts: 12878
Loc: W.Sussex
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Wonder if one day mushrooms will be removed from xc courses around the country? I can think of a particular nasty set I walked past on a local xc years ago. Person I was walking the course with said they're one of the worst types of fence to jump on a xc course!
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Pledging has now begun! Please go here and donate today to make us taking off our clothes worthwhile!
http://www.justgiving.com/hhogetnaked
Founder member of the "I'm a student avoiding essay writing" clique.
Member of the 'I'm just a Riding School numpty, what do I know?' clique
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comet_
addict
Reged: 17/01/2008
Posts: 541
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All, bar Twinkle Bee, approached that jump well so don't think the riding can be blamed!
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Thanks to kandm for the siggy
Was eventerlad15 but he's on a winter break so comet_ until spring
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm206/josht_2008_bucket/?start=40
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TableDancer
old hand
Reged: 20/02/2008
Posts: 747
Loc: Monmouthshire
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Yeah, Zara, Matt W, Laura all spot on approaches. Anyway, it's not just the fallers it's the almost fallers, isn't it? Of which there were dozens...
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peachesandcream
veteran
Reged: 22/09/2006
Posts: 1319
Loc: Devon
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kerilli- might be interested in listening to the mark phillips interview on here http://www.burghley-horse.co.uk/Media/AudioInt.asp
he talks about the mushrooms abit
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Lucretia_BahHumbug
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 07/01/2008
Posts: 2516
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in whole sentences? amazing.
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hiding under cyber bridges still make you a troll!
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Bubblegum
Reged: 19/07/2004
Posts: 671
Loc: Cambridge
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Very pleased to see that they are to be scrapped. Exactly what we thought must happen after watching this years XC. Glad you are still going to write... go for it. Agree 100% with your sentiments.
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Flames_Slave
veteran
Reged: 15/11/2007
Posts: 1435
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Quote:
Yeah, Zara, Matt W, Laura all spot on approaches. Anyway, it's not just the fallers it's the almost fallers, isn't it? Of which there were dozens...
Agree 100%. Hardly anything jumped it well and there were at least another three that very nearly fell. Glad its going, I hated them last year and was surprised to see them back.
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I'm KVS
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TarrSteps
veteran
Reged: 09/01/2007
Posts: 1293
Loc: Balham and points south.
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Interesting point about fences with higher middles and lower sides, particularly skinnies.
Somewhere on Youtube there is a BBC (I think) piece narrated by Clare Balding that's basically a "horse's-eye view" of approaching a xc fence. Given that horses focus by moving their heads (they have ramped retinas if anyone cares, rather than focusing primarily by muscular effort as we do) and that they have a relatively small area of binocular vision (part of judging depth) any fence that presents an optical illusion (from a horse's point of view) is suspect. If a horse is looking "around" the area it's jumping, not staring at the actual spot as we would, then one can see where fences like this might cause a problem . . .
It's one of those things that's probably doable, in that the horse can use other signals to judge, if conditions are fine so most of the time the horses cope. But because they're "just coping" if there are other factors in play, such as poor visibility, tiredness, or something distracting, it can drastically increase the chances of the horse misjudging and at that speed and that height . . .
It certainly bears looking into.
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SillyMare
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 04/01/2006
Posts: 2143
Loc: Northampton
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We walked the mushrooms fence (went back at the end of the day to have a proper look when we could walk right up to it).
Wasn't obvious why the horses were having so much trouble - downhill approach but with one stide level / slightly uphill before point of take-off. The ground seemed good, even right at the end of the day. The actual fence was massive - I thought it was far bigger 'in the flesh (wood)' than it looked on TV.
Interesting point about fences with middle higher than sides - there was definitely something funny about that fence.
Fingers crossed none of the injuries turn out to be too serious.
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kerilli
Reged: 01/04/2002
Posts: 7955
Loc: South Lincs
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TarrSteps, horses don't have ramp retinas, that theory has been binned now iirc, the person who came up with it was working on a dead horse's eye which had started drying out and hence gave a false impression, i believe. (my vet told me this).
but horses have a blind spot in the middle, we all know that, so they focus to left and right of where they're going to jump. i am absolutely convinced that they thought that fence was about 3" lower than it actually was. i saw one horse all day actually give it any daylight, i think... the girl towards the end who yelled Hup!
a lot of the horses weren't tiring and were going great to that point.
i would like to see 'ball' fences (there was one of a globe years ago at the Worlds and a LOT of top horses left a leg at it, some fell) and all other rounded-topped skinnies banned.
--------------------
"Ride as if you are competing, every day. At competitions, ride as if you are at home."
"Violence begins where knowledge ends" - Abraham Lincoln
"Remember, the horse has no bad intentions, he only reacts." - Dr Gerd Heuschmann
Success always occurs in private, and failure in full public view. (isn't that Eventing for you!)
thanks to Mel85 for the siggy!
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Flames_Slave
veteran
Reged: 15/11/2007
Posts: 1435
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Quote:
horses have a blind spot in the middle, we all know that, so they focus to left and right of where they're going to jump. i am absolutely convinced that they thought that fence was about 3" lower than it actually was.
This was my line of thought as well. It does make sense.
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I'm KVS
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