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View Full Version : How do you know its time to say goodbye



snooples
03-06-13, 06:50 PM
My horse is about 20 now, last year he did double clears in all his events and was placed at every hunter trial.
The winter was hard on him and he still hasnt put weight back on properly, he suffers from arthritis which gets bad in winter when he is stuck in.
Two weeks ago he did his first show jumping of the year and did a double clear, a couple of days after that he got eliminated showjumping at a fence that was completey open and was a drunken oxer with zero groundline. I think his eyesight isnt great so without a groundline he didnt know where to take off.
Then on Saturday I was out cantering and he fell over and knocked me unconsicence, my instincts are that he tripped in a rabbit hole but Im also scared that his legs might have gone from under him and what if that happens again :(

He feels great to be ridden and starting to look better now his summer coat is finally come through. Iv had him for 10 years and got him when I was 13 so Im really scared his time might be coming to an end.

So basically how do you make the decision to let go, its unlikely that he will be kept as a companion as there is no room really and I think he would hate it.

Bigginge
03-06-13, 06:53 PM
Have you had the vet to assess his sight and arthritis? They are best advised to tell you what he is/isn't capable of

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 06:56 PM
Get a vets assessment and take it from there he may need an easier life and a little less work or different work.

snooples
03-06-13, 07:00 PM
The arthritis only happens if he is kept in the stable now he is out in the field and getting a joint supplement its not flaring up anymore. It only started this winter and Im scared about this year if it gets worse.

Havent got anyone out to check sight as its just a theory im coming up with but maybe it was lack of training as he has never jumped anything so big and slightly wonky without a groundline. It was just weird as he never refuses and I was allowed jump another oxer afterwards which was filled in and it was no problem...

tbh I dont know what else he could do if he is falling on hacks then he is no good to anyone, but im still hoping it was a rabbit hole or something but i dunno if il ever find out.

attheponies
03-06-13, 07:01 PM
Get a vets assessment and take it from there he may need an easier life and a little less work or different work.

Agree with this, bless him he sounds like he just needs to take life a little bit easier as we all do in our old age. I'd get a vet's advice and be smothering him with tlc!

snooples
03-06-13, 07:04 PM
Also since hes been back in work since March hes ridden about 4 times a week, mainly hackin and only done 2 showjumping rounds (one double clear, one elim) since then so I dont know how I could take it any easier :o

Elliesmemory1
03-06-13, 07:06 PM
Poor boy, sounds like he needs some tlc and take things bit slower.

Marydoll
03-06-13, 07:07 PM
Drop the sj and have him as a happy hacker

ChristmasSparkles
03-06-13, 07:08 PM
I think they meant retiring jumping possibly to take it easy...

You just know, in answer to the original question.

Get the vet, go from there.

snooples
03-06-13, 07:09 PM
theres no chance of him being a happy hacker, all he wants to do is jump he hates hacking!

Here he is 2 weeks ago


SW-gzsqFnXk

attheponies
03-06-13, 07:14 PM
Bless him he looks a real sweetie but also looks to be showing his age. How do you know he hates hacking and wouldn't want to be a companion?

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 07:15 PM
I have watched the video and can reiterate my previous advice get a vet to assess your horse the things you describe are not normal and you have already been knocked out listern to your horse and seek advice.

be positive
03-06-13, 07:15 PM
Also since hes been back in work since March hes ridden about 4 times a week, mainly hackin and only done 2 showjumping rounds (one double clear, one elim) since then so I dont know how I could take it any easier :o

If he has only been in work since March is he fit enough to be jumping, in the video he certainly looks as if he has very little muscle and at his age it takes more time to get them fit after a break, a vet check, plenty of steady work to build him up, possibly physio if he is behaving out of character.

I would not be thinking of saying goodbye after a couple of bad days, without looking to do more to help him first.

Billie1007
03-06-13, 07:15 PM
How old are you op? Sounds like you love him very much but it comes across as you not wanting to slow down not him. I would rather manage pain and be restricted to a few years of hacking in walk! Or not riding at all, than ending my girl's days too early.

ChristmasSparkles
03-06-13, 07:16 PM
Where does he have arthritis? Does he normally land disunited?

If he suffers badly from arthritis, I wouldn't be jumping him personally. If companion is out of the question for you along with hacking - then you've answered your own question.

If [i]you want to carry on jumping him and jumping only, then I think you need to be realistic. Look down injection route into the joint and give him a summer/year doing what you say loves with no pain at least then let him have his fun and give him his final break. He's old enough to deserve it.

Is he on any glucosamine or supplements to help him?

ChristmasSparkles
03-06-13, 07:17 PM
How old are you op? Sounds like you love him very much but it comes across as you not wanting to slow down not him. I would rather manage pain and be restricted to a few years of hacking in walk! Or not riding at all, than ending my girl's days too early.


^ This.

I may have it wrong so feel to correct me, but that is what it has come across as.

snooples
03-06-13, 07:18 PM
He finds hacking very boring no enthusiasm for it at all, hes a totally different horse if he gets to go galloping or jumping.

He gets stiff in one of his back legs which is where id imagine the arthritis is, no problem with front legs

Hes a big ISH who loses weight easily through winter which would be even worse without work so hes defo not a companion horse anyway unless I could find a field with masses of grass all year round and someone to feed him a couple of times a day!

touchstone
03-06-13, 07:19 PM
Well he does look very stiff to me over that jump. I think it probably is time to give him an easier life. As for him not being happy just hacking, I'd give it a go first and then make decisions if he definitely wasn't happy; there are other things that you can do that don't involve jumping - showing, trec etc.

attheponies
03-06-13, 07:23 PM
Well he does look very stiff to me over that jump. I think it probably is time to give him an easier life. As for him not being happy just hacking, I'd give it a go first and then make decisions if he definitely wasn't happy; there are other things that you can do that don't involve jumping - showing, trec etc.

Ditto this ^^

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 07:23 PM
He finds hacking very boring no enthusiasm for it at all, hes a totally different horse if he gets to go galloping or jumping.

Hes a big ISH who loses weight easily through winter which would be even worse without work so hes defo not a companion horse anyway unless I could find a field with masses of grass all year round and someone to feed him a couple of times a day!

Nothing here is a reason not to call the vet and seek advice.
Not sure why you can't feed this horse yourself even if he is going to need an easier life why must someone esle care for him ?

ladyt25
03-06-13, 07:23 PM
Hmm, I would say get someone to give him a good physio session to be hones. If he's got arthritis he is likely to be compensatiing and could easily be making himself sore and this may be causing him to refuse. Mine is 22 and to be honest, although his conformation is not the best, I woukd say he moves more fluidly than what I am seeing in that video. It looks a little laboured.

Mine has a Mctimoney guy to him at least twice a year and has done for a few years now as he does/has done silly things in the past (ie crawling under a fence!) and pulled his back. He started refusing at one stage and he'd never refused in the time I'd had him (since he was 4) so something was wrong. Turned out to be his back.

I also got him a new saddle a couple of years back as his old one was just not fitting well. He started jumping better since getting a new saddle so i feel quite bad that maybe that was the niggling issue all the time.

I still compete him in dressage, SJing and ODEs and he loves going to 'parties'. However, I have dropped him down height wise and we will probably stick to nothing bigger than 90cms as that is what he/me on him are comfortable with. Granted mine does not have diagnosed arthirits although I have noticed some stiffness in one stifle. If he did have arthritis I think he would be out 24/7 365 days a year though. Currently during winter he's in at night. 22 isn't old but you have to consider what he is capable of.

As for the tripping, to be honest that could be just bad luck. Mine has done that on occasion but not on a regular basis. I wouldn't read an awful lot in to that unless you feel he's tripping a lot

snooples
03-06-13, 07:26 PM
^ This.

I may have it wrong so feel to correct me, but that is what it has come across as.

I have another horse to compete so I dont mind not riding him at all, its he seems to love it. Like when I was loose schooling him in the arena he kept jumping the jumps himself.

He is more than fit enough to be jumping hes been in full work for over 3 months and he didnt even work up a sweat the night he did a double clear, second round was a jump off and he even came third!

if only I knew what had caused him to fall the other day that would help loads, as if he fell himself then I know its all too much for him but if it was a rabbit hole id say fair enough. As its never happened before, hes not a horse who trips.

The comp he got elimnated at was a gualifer for national champs and to be fair he never does pure showjumping and I hadnt really done much prep either so Id blame that one on me really.

TheMule
03-06-13, 07:26 PM
It may not be time to say goodbye yet, but I agree you need to give him an easier life- no jumping, he looks dreadful in the video

I also have a 20yr old horse, I've had him for 12 years and he is my baby. I evented him to 2* but last year he got more creaky and so he has been fully retired. At the end of the summer I'll have him PTS because his arthritis is currently manageable but I wont put him through another winter and risk him being in pain. He has had a wonderful year out in the field and will go on a bright sunny day

snooples
03-06-13, 07:29 PM
Nothing here is a reason not to call the vet and seek advice.
Not sure why you can't feed this horse yourself even if he is going to need an easier life why must someone esle care for him ?

I dont have the facilites at home for him, he is kept miles from me and they dont have turnout during winter anyway

ladyt25
03-06-13, 07:30 PM
Horse can trip and fall for any reason so i wouldn't worry about that too much if he's moving ok in general. Mine fell a few years ago on me - he slipped on the road at walk and hit the road with a hell of a thud. I broke my collar bone. He'd never done it before andhe's not done it since - he had lost one road stud in a hind shoe and that's why he fell. Ok, so now i am a bit paranoid checking he always has them in!

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 07:33 PM
You need to get vet a vet to look at him and you push me to say if my old horse looked like that video I would be ashamed to have him in public .
There are other livery yards and no ones saying he can't be ridden you need a vet to look at him.
I think You said earlier in the thread he's not long back to work so what was he doing for exercise over the winter if the yard has no turn out .

ladyt25
03-06-13, 07:33 PM
I dont have the facilites at home for him, he is kept miles from me and they dont have turnout during winter anyway

If he is a good, reliable hack then maybe consider loaning him to someone to do just this. I doubt he "hates" hacking. Maybe you just don't really enjoy it so hence it is 'dull'. Also, maybe because he is in low level discomfort he isn't as perked up as the adrenalin isn't there to take over as it is with competing.

Again though, ine went very lethargic andseemed disinterested in hacking at one point. Turned out he'd hurt his back but, being the good soul he is he just got on with it. The difference when I had him treated was quiet remarkable.

snooples
03-06-13, 07:37 PM
Hmm, I would say get someone to give him a good physio session to be hones. If he's got arthritis he is likely to be compensatiing and could easily be making himself sore and this may be causing him to refuse. Mine is 22 and to be honest, although his conformation is not the best, I woukd say he moves more fluidly than what I am seeing in that video. It looks a little laboured.

Mine has a Mctimoney guy to him at least twice a year and has done for a few years now as he does/has done silly things in the past (ie crawling under a fence!) and pulled his back. He started refusing at one stage and he'd never refused in the time I'd had him (since he was 4) so something was wrong. Turned out to be his back.

I also got him a new saddle a couple of years back as his old one was just not fitting well. He started jumping better since getting a new saddle so i feel quite bad that maybe that was the niggling issue all the time.

I still compete him in dressage, SJing and ODEs and he loves going to 'parties'. However, I have dropped him down height wise and we will probably stick to nothing bigger than 90cms as that is what he/me on him are comfortable with. Granted mine does not have diagnosed arthirits although I have noticed some stiffness in one stifle. If he did have arthritis I think he would be out 24/7 365 days a year though. Currently during winter he's in at night. 22 isn't old but you have to consider what he is capable of.

As for the tripping, to be honest that could be just bad luck. Mine has done that on occasion but not on a regular basis. I wouldn't read an awful lot in to that unless you feel he's tripping a lot

Hi thanks for the reply!
He comeptes at 90s at the moment too, all double clears last year which was good.

Im just assuming its arthritis as I was told a few years ago he might get it and he does get a bit stiff in his back leg after hes been cross country but I dont know if thats arthritis or not.
That fence he got elim at is the only fence hes refused in years, he jumped one right after it with no problems and never refuses at home. So thats why I was thinking he just couldnt judge the take off on it maybe as it had no groundline at all.

The main thing im concerned about is the fall, it was on the flat so nothing to do with jumps and he hadnt been jumping that day at all. As you say horses do trip up randomly but im just going to be extra careful in future!

snooples
03-06-13, 07:38 PM
If he is a good, reliable hack then maybe consider loaning him to someone to do just this. I doubt he "hates" hacking. Maybe you just don't really enjoy it so hence it is 'dull'. Also, maybe because he is in low level discomfort he isn't as perked up as the adrenalin isn't there to take over as it is with competing.

Again though, ine went very lethargic andseemed disinterested in hacking at one point. Turned out he'd hurt his back but, being the good soul he is he just got on with it. The difference when I had him treated was quiet remarkable.

I was actually thnking of doing this, hes quite as a mouse and would give confidence to anyone but its just who would take on an old horse who is hard to keep weight on. If I could find someone this is what Id love to do

snooples
03-06-13, 07:39 PM
You need to get vet a vet to look at him and you push me to say if my old horse looked like that video I would be ashamed to have him in public ..

thanks

snooples
03-06-13, 07:45 PM
Where does he have arthritis? Does he normally land disunited?

If he suffers badly from arthritis, I wouldn't be jumping him personally. If companion is out of the question for you along with hacking - then you've answered your own question.

If [i]you want to carry on jumping him and jumping only, then I think you need to be realistic. Look down injection route into the joint and give him a summer/year doing what you say loves with no pain at least then let him have his fun and give him his final break. He's old enough to deserve it.

Is he on any glucosamine or supplements to help him?

Hi, I think what happened when he landed was it was quite deep after the jump and his back legs almost got stuck I guess and changed the rythm thats why he went back to trot.

I dont think he suffers very much from arthritis, he was hunter trialed before xmas and would be stiff the day after but hes not stiff on a daily basis or anything.

He is currently fed glucosamine in Equine america kenticky liquid joint supplement just to be on the safe side if it is arthritis

PonyIAmNotFood
03-06-13, 07:49 PM
He doesn't look to have the spark for jumping that you're describing judging from that vid tbh. Hacking, chilling, 24 hour turnout would be my answer. Light work and joint supplements to keep him swinging. If the turnout isn't good enough for him in winter, he'd be moving to somewhere that could offer it. I'd want to keep him comfy for as long as possible and if that meant me not doing what I wanted to with him anymore, so be it. But then I'm soft.

ChristmasSparkles
03-06-13, 07:52 PM
Im just assuming its arthritis as I was told a few years ago he might get it and he does get a bit stiff in his back leg after hes been cross country but I dont know if thats arthritis or not.



Then you really need to get the vet!

ladyt25
03-06-13, 07:53 PM
Seriously, if you haven't already, get his back checked out. Sounds like you don't know if he has arthritis or not - he may not do. Mine will quite often land disunited after fences. However, that's actually not a huge worry - you can watch some top showjumpers who have a 'unique style' and they will do the same so that on its own wouldn't worry me BUT if he'd not done it before it can indicate a back problem.

He may well have refused because he got too deep and physically just could push enough comfortably to get over and if he's a clean jumper normally he won't have wanted to trash it.

snooples
03-06-13, 07:56 PM
He doesn't look to have the spark for jumping that you're describing judging from that vid tbh. Hacking, chilling, 24 hour turnout would be my answer. Light work and joint supplements to keep him swinging. If the turnout isn't good enough for him in winter, he'd be moving to somewhere that could offer it. I'd want to keep him comfy for as long as possible and if that meant me not doing what I wanted to with him anymore, so be it. But then I'm soft.

Thats what Id like to do if possible, i defo dont want to let him go.
Trust me he loves his juming, I was videoing it on my phone so wasnt able to get after him properly to jump.
trust me not many horses would jump barrel height with no wings or guide poles while you just stand there filming on your phone!

Elliesmemory1
03-06-13, 07:56 PM
He does not look to be enjoying himself, he looks thin and under muscled. It looks a real effort to jump. You need to get the vet and take some advise.
I feel its you who wants to jump not the horse

Its not fair to keep jumping him in that state, this is about whats best for the horse not you.

snooples
03-06-13, 07:59 PM
Seriously, if you haven't already, get his back checked out. Sounds like you don't know if he has arthritis or not - he may not do. Mine will quite often land disunited after fences. However, that's actually not a huge worry - you can watch some top showjumpers who have a 'unique style' and they will do the same so that on its own wouldn't worry me BUT if he'd not done it before it can indicate a back problem.

He may well have refused because he got too deep and physically just could push enough comfortably to get over and if he's a clean jumper normally he won't have wanted to trash it.

Ok will do, its hard enough to get back people around here but I can get my hands on a physio soon enough, hopefully this week.
I can count on my hand the amount of poles hes knocked in his life he hates knocking them more than anything and when I got him (11 years ago!) would rather stop than knock so maybe that was that tendency coming back again

snooples
03-06-13, 08:01 PM
He does not look to be enjoying himself, he looks thin and under muscled. It looks a real effort to jump. You need to get the vet and take some advise.
I feel its you who wants to jump not the horse

Its not fair to keep jumping him in that state, this is about whats best for the horse not you.

I did state at the start he is quite underweight after winter Im well aware of that.
The day the video was taken I was only meant to be loose schooling on the flat and there was jumps up around the arena and he jumped them by himself.
Tbf that barrel height is about 1.10 height as take off is quite deep, he competes at 90s

PonyIAmNotFood
03-06-13, 08:06 PM
May not be the case, but is not just conditioned to loose jump as opposed to actually actively wanting to? He didn't look excited about it, you say this is because you weren't getting after him, you shouldn't have to do that to get him razzed up about something he supposedly loves. I wouldn't be jumping him sorry.

PonyIAmNotFood
03-06-13, 08:07 PM
Or putting him in a position where he automatically jumps due to thinking that is what should happen in that particular setting, as I believe may have happened in the vid.

ATrueClassAct
03-06-13, 08:09 PM
Just wanted to comment and say I have a little lady who was competed and jumped up until last year, always thought she wouldn't cope with retirement. But last October she had to retire due to illness(rotated pedal bones) and she's so happy! Holding her weight much better, still a poor doer but coat is so shiny and just loves going for wanders round the farm. I believe we owe our oldies a lovely retirement for all that they've given us :) or atleast a slower life if they're not Upto/enjoying their work.

SadKen
03-06-13, 08:10 PM
I'd imagine you'd be able to find a nice hacking home for him if he's nice and quiet on the roads. Perhaps it's time to let him do something like that, and get a younger and sprightlier horse to do some more jumping. You could probably move up to bigger jumps then if you wanted to. Seems a shame to write him off completely if he will hack nicely, even if that's not your thing.

snooples
03-06-13, 08:10 PM
May not be the case, but is not just conditioned to loose jump as opposed to actually actively wanting to? He didn't look excited about it, you say this is because you weren't getting after him, you shouldn't have to do that to get him razzed up about something he supposedly loves. I wouldn't be jumping him sorry.

That was my first time ever loose schooling him! I never do it, I turned up and the tack room had been locked and there was no key so I decided to loose school for the first time

Elliesmemory1
03-06-13, 08:10 PM
He looks stiff, sore and unhappy. Stop jumping him and get the vet for gods sake!

ChristmasSparkles
03-06-13, 08:12 PM
I don't mean this offensively, but what answers do you want posted on here? Everyone has said get a vet assessment, cut the jumping and go from there. There is your answer.

If he was underweight throughout winter, then he should have been bought back slowly and fed up, conditioned up with ground work first and then slowly bought up to work to be competing 90's or freejumping 1'10s. 3 months/12weeks is not enough time imo for an older horse to be back out competing when possible other issues underlying as it is. Chiro/dentist/vet should have been your first port of call when you had weight and stiffness problems over the winter - not just bought back into work regardless and taken out competing again.

You say you've had him 11 years and love him, so give him some decency,cut the jumping at the very least for the time being and get to the bottom of any worries and issues with vet and chiro. All the video shows is a shorts strided, undermuscled horse getting deep and lacking impulsion to clear it and landing disunited. That along with your description,is all we have to go on so the answers will be in response to that.

Whether he WANTS to jump or not is irrelevant if it causes him pain. He'll carry on jumping because it's his job and a genuine wanting to please horse from the sounds of it - don't take this for advantage and end up with a early retired horse because of the need to compete him.

snooples
03-06-13, 08:13 PM
Just wanted to comment and say I have a little lady who was competed and jumped up until last year, always thought she wouldn't cope with retirement. But last October she had to retire due to illness(rotated pedal bones) and she's so happy! Holding her weight much better, still a poor doer but coat is so shiny and just loves going for wanders round the farm. I believe we owe our oldies a lovely retirement for all that they've given us :) or atleast a slower life if they're not Upto/enjoying their work.

I would love to do this but its the winter im worried about, he loses condition quickly and I dont really know what Id do with him!

If I could find a hacking home I would, Im going to try anyway but given his age and how much feed he needs I think it will be unlikely

snooples
03-06-13, 08:18 PM
I don't mean this offensively, but what answers do you want posted on here? Everyone has said get a vet assessment, cut the jumping and go from there. There is your answer.

If he was underweight throughout winter, then he should have been bought back slowly and fed up, conditioned up with ground work first and then slowly bought up to work to be competing 90's or freejumping 1'10s. 3 months/12weeks is not enough time imo for an older horse to be back out competing when possible other issues underlying as it is. Chiro/dentist/vet should have been your first port of call when you had weight and stiffness problems over the winter - not just bought back into work regardless and taken out competing again.

You say you've had him 11 years and love him, so give him some decency,cut the jumping at the very least for the time being and get to the bottom of any worries and issues with vet and chiro. All the video shows is a shorts strided, undermuscled horse getting deep and lacking impulsion to clear it and landing disunited. That along with your description,is all we have to go on so the answers will be in response to that.

Whether he WANTS to jump or not is irrelevant if it causes him pain. He'll carry on jumping because it's his job and a genuine wanting to please horse from the sounds of it - don't take this for advantage and end up with a early retired horse because of the need to compete him.


I am taking on board what everyone says, I can hardly get a vet out right now and Iv already said il get a physio out this week. Im just answering the questions as they are being posted.


I wasnt in the country over winter so Iv never seen the stiffness, iv only been told about it. He was ridden once or twice a week when I was gone over winter so some sort of base fitness would have been maintained.
I came back mid feb and started him again myself and he started jumping 3 weeks ago, that loose jumping would have been his first time jumping in months.

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 08:25 PM
I am taking on board what everyone says, I can hardly get a vet out right now and Iv already said il get a physio out this week. Im just answering the questions as they are being posted.


I wasnt in the country over winter so Iv never seen the stiffness, iv only been told about it. He was ridden once or twice a week when I was gone over winter so some sort of base fitness would have been maintained.
I came back mid feb and started him again myself and he started jumping 3 weeks ago, that loose jumping would have been his first time jumping in months.

So the yard has no winter turnout and he was ridden once or twice a week so what did he do the rest of the time?

paulineh
03-06-13, 08:27 PM
20 is nothing today. I have a 23 yr old who is still competing in Endurance.

BUT GET A VET and get a full MOT on him, then a good physio or/and a Equine Chiropractor (Where are you as I know a number of physios etc) Also If you have not done recently get the dentist to see him.

A lot of horses have not come out of this winter well and are slowly coming back.

If you have another horse to ride then give him some more time off in the field.

Without finding out what is wrong you seemed to have given up on him. Have you though of pleasure rides etc. Have fun instead of competing.

It is not time yet to say goodbye.

snooples
03-06-13, 08:28 PM
So the yard has no winter turnout and he was ridden once or twice a week so what did he do the rest of the time?

stuck inside a lot of the time unfortunately. I was on the other side of the world so had no say in anything.
Which is why I dont want him to do that another winter. They do have a paddock which he was allowed out in a couple of times a week too to graze a bit and stretch his legs but not for any decent length of time.

Billie1007
03-06-13, 08:32 PM
Beginning to think this is a wind up. Why can't you get a vet out 'right now'? We all have an obligation to get a vet as soon as we can. Why can't you?

This doesn't look like an emergency; I'm not saying it is. Just confused as to why you can't get a vet.

snooples
03-06-13, 08:33 PM
20 is nothing today. I have a 23 yr old who is still competing in Endurance.

BUT GET A VET and get a full MOT on him, then a good physio or/and a Equine Chiropractor (Where are you as I know a number of physios etc) Also If you have not done recently get the dentist to see him.

A lot of horses have not come out of this winter well and are slowly coming back.

If you have another horse to ride then give him some more time off in the field.

Without finding out what is wrong you seemed to have given up on him. Have you though of pleasure rides etc. Have fun instead of competing.

It is not time yet to say goodbye.


Im not even that big into competing which I think people here got the impression I was, I only brought him out 4 times last year myself then he hunter trialled with someone else maybe 4 times.

He always winters badly unfortunately so when other horses are doing bad hes just going to do awful! Im well aware he looks crap and hes never going to muscle up like a young horse again but hes slowly coming around esp now the coat is going. There is nothing like a winter coat to make a horse look ****

Im in Ireland and dont know one chiropracotor :o but physio and dentist i can do.
When im riding him he seems full of energy and always eager to go for a gallop or a jump when he finds out we are going hacking he isnt too happy!

snooples
03-06-13, 08:34 PM
Beginning to think this is a wind up. Why can't you get a vet out 'right now'? We all have an obligation to get a vet as soon as we can. Why can't you?

This doesn't look like an emergency; I'm not saying it is. Just confused as to why you can't get a vet.

So you want me to call the vet out at half 9 at night for nothing in particular so a general look over of my horse. What sort of vets do you have that would do that!!!

be positive
03-06-13, 08:36 PM
stuck inside a lot of the time unfortunately. I was on the other side of the world so had no say in anything.
Which is why I dont want him to do that another winter. They do have a paddock which he was allowed out in a couple of times a week too to graze a bit and stretch his legs but not for any decent length of time.

So you come back, find him looking poor, reportedly stiff yet the yard has not seen fit to get a vet, he has no proper turnout or exercise all the time you have been away, who has paid the livery for this service, if that is what you call it?

It seems to me everyone is failing here, I would look to move to a decent yard that takes care of the horses properly and you need to stop making excuses for why you have done nothing to change things since you came back.

Billie1007
03-06-13, 08:39 PM
So you want me to call the vet out at half 9 at night for nothing in particular so a general look over of my horse. What sort of vets do you have that would do that!!!


Any vet would do that. It's your choice.

Ooooh nice selective reading and interpretation Snoops.

I didn't say you should call them right now, I said very clearly it wasn't an emergency. Your post said you couldn't get a vet right now but he would see a physio in the next week, suggesting you aren't going to get a vet to him in between that time. Why not? You say yourself he is struggling....

snooples
03-06-13, 08:39 PM
So you come back, find him looking poor, reportedly stiff yet the yard has not seen fit to get a vet, he has no proper turnout or exercise all the time you have been away, who has paid the livery for this service, if that is what you call it?

It seems to me everyone is failing here, I would look to move to a decent yard that takes care of the horses properly and you need to stop making excuses for why you have done nothing to change things since you came back.

I dont pay, its someone doing it as a favour you see,

actually a lot has changed since iv come back
hes on 24 7 turnout now and has been for quite a while, and hes been getting lots of baileys top line condition cubes, iron x cell, joint supplement and chaff.

snooples
03-06-13, 08:40 PM
Any vet would do that. It's your choice.

I didn't say you should call them right now, I said very clearly it wasn't an emergency. Your post said you couldn't get a vet right now but he would see a physio in the next week, suggesting you aren't going to get a vet to him in between that time.

Maybe I wrote the post wrong or you read it wrong, I said I couldnt get a chiro as we have none around here but I could get a physio

Billie1007
03-06-13, 08:41 PM
When im riding him he seems full of energy and always eager to go for a gallop or a jump when he finds out we are going hacking he isnt too happy!

This made me do an actual LOL. Nice one Snoops.

snooples
03-06-13, 08:42 PM
This made me do an actual LOL. Nice one Snoops.

No need to be rude you dont know what hes like to ride

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 08:42 PM
stuck inside a lot of the time unfortunately. I was on the other side of the world so had no say in anything.
Which is why I dont want him to do that another winter. They do have a paddock which he was allowed out in a couple of times a week too to graze a bit and stretch his legs but not for any decent length of time.

You had every say ,every county in this country has many livery yards you chose to leave him somewhere where he was getting a totally inadequate amount of movement.

You come back he's thin and has been stiff why did the vet not see him in Febuary ?

Billie1007
03-06-13, 08:45 PM
No need to be rude you dont know what hes like to ride


It was the 'not too happy when he finds out we are going for a hack' bit. Ahhh you should probably just carry on jumping him then 'cause that video suggests he just lives for it! Wowsers, you're telepathic! Has he told you how sore he is?

*apologies to all, I just do not understand people who don't offer their beloved animal assistance in these circumstances and it's all a bit close to home atm*

snooples
03-06-13, 08:46 PM
You had every say ,every county in this country has many livery yards you chose to leave him somewhere where he was getting a totally inadequate amount of movement.

You come back he's thin and has been stiff why did the vet not see him in Febuary ?

Because its been one of the hardest winters ever and he always winters badly. As I said hes out full time now and getting plenty of extra feed and he feel fines to ride. No difference between how he feels this year or last when ridden.
But as I said Il get someone out to give him a proper once over and see what they say

hihosilver
03-06-13, 08:47 PM
The video made me sad....how can anyone let a horse like him jump??? poor, poor horse.

snooples
03-06-13, 08:48 PM
It was the 'not too happy when he finds out we are going for a hack bit'. Wowsers, you're telepathic! Has he told you how sore he is?

*apologies to all, I just do not understand people who don't offer their beloved animal assistance in these circumstances and it's all a bit close to home atm*

I know when my horse is enthusiastic about something as Im sure many people here have horses that get lazy when they realise they are being schooled in the arena but might perk up on a hack.
And iv obviously realised something was wrong or why would I have asked on here....

snooples
03-06-13, 08:51 PM
The video made me sad....how can anyone let a horse like him jump??? poor, poor horse.

Can you elaborate please or its just no help to me at all. Hes a long older horse so will never have a very bouncy canter and he lands in ground thats a bit deep hence the back legs but if you could tell me what else you dont like about it and be helpful

snooples
03-06-13, 08:55 PM
Im also going to say I posted a video of him jumping in competetion riders a couple fof weeks, same day as this one and it was over a tiny jump and he just kind of walked over it and I got loads of replies about what a nice horse he was and now as I mentioned he refused ONE jump and tripped on a hack Im suddenly an awful owner who doesnt have a clue :confused:

Elliesmemory1
03-06-13, 08:56 PM
How much more advise do you want!!!! That poor horse looks in no fit state to be jumping, He is not enjoying it, it looks like a massive effort to jump, YOU NEED TO GET THE VET He looks in pain. ONCE MORE, GET THE VET

Billie1007
03-06-13, 08:56 PM
Im also going to say I posted a video of him jumping in competetion riders a couple fof weeks, same day as this one and it was over a tiny jump and he just kind of walked over it and I got loads of replies about what a nice horse he was and now as I mentioned he refused ONE jump and tripped on a hack Im suddenly an awful owner who doesnt have a clue :confused:

Linky please :)

snooples
03-06-13, 08:57 PM
How much more advise do you want!!!! That poor horse looks in no fit state to be jumping, He is not enjoying it, it looks like a massive effort to jump, YOU NEED TO GET THE VET He looks in pain. ONCE MORE, GET THE VET

IV SAID NUMEROUS TIMES I WILL!!! im just answering posts as they are being posted

snooples
03-06-13, 08:58 PM
Linky please :)

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=613653

Billie1007
03-06-13, 09:01 PM
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=613653

Just caught up with the post where you say you give him one feed a day as no time for two :rolleyes:

And the one where you could qualify but he isn't fit or ready and the ground is hard, should you just go for it anyway despite it not being the best thing for him or should you go in all guns blazing on the day?

In the link above there is no context, that's the difference between that thread and this one.

URGH.

lhotse
03-06-13, 09:04 PM
Well, he looks lame for a start, arthritis or not, yet you still jump him without knowing the cause. Are you Rileyboy????

snooples
03-06-13, 09:05 PM
hes out in a full field of grass and for the last while hes been upped to two feeds now anyway but that will go back to one soon as soon as weight is up and hes not working enough for so much hard food.

whats wrong with the question I asked, I didnt want to compete him on hard ground which is normal but i also didnt want to go to a qualifier with no pre-run.

snooples
03-06-13, 09:07 PM
Well, he looks lame for a start, arthritis or not, yet you still jump him without knowing the cause. Are you Rileyboy????

still jump without knowing th cause for what, hes never felt lame to ride and hes only had issues with one fence. he has jumped everything else no problems

Billie1007
03-06-13, 09:08 PM
hes out in a full field of grass and for the last while hes been upped to two feeds now anyway but that will go back to one soon as soon as weight is up and hes not working enough for so much hard food.

whats wrong with the question I asked, I didnt want to compete him on hard ground which is normal but i also didnt want to go to a qualifier with no pre-run.

By the looks of him you shouldn't be jumping him at all? How many times?

Seriously, how old are you because I need some context that may help me to restrain myself :)

Billie1007
03-06-13, 09:08 PM
still jump without knowing th cause for what, hes never felt lame to ride and hes only had issues with one fence. he has jumped everything else no problems


You have eyes, yes?

snooples
03-06-13, 09:10 PM
to be fair you cant completely judge him on a 9 second video. he went out a jumped a double clear 5 days after that video

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 09:10 PM
Seriously, how old are you because I need some context that may help me to restrain myself :)

I have retired from the fray before I disgrace myself.

paulineh
03-06-13, 09:11 PM
Look at this list of Phsios and Chiropractors in Ireland

http://www.allhorse.ie/equine-therapy.html

This may help.

snooples
03-06-13, 09:16 PM
Look at this list of Phsios and Chiropractors in Ireland

http://www.allhorse.ie/equine-therapy.html

This may help.

Thanks for the help, will contact one of those tomorrow. He was the first horse I got when I moved from ponies when I was 13 so Iv literally grew up with him. I dont claim to be an expert which is why I ask on here for help, I just go on how he feels and he feels great. When im sitting on him and point him to a jump he lights up and hes so happy. Its not nice to come on here and have people tell me im stupid or I dont have a clue. So thanks for helping.

paulineh
03-06-13, 09:17 PM
OP think I have worked out you are 23, so not young, just stupid.

That was not very nice.

3000 odd posting since March 2012, well well well you have a lot to say for yourself.

Billie1007
03-06-13, 09:19 PM
That was not very nice.

3000 odd posting since March 2012, well well well you have a lot to say for yourself.

No, it wasn't nice. It wasn't meant to be :rolleyes:

Yup, I'm bored in the evenings sometimes! Aye up everyone the 'honorary admin/post police' has arrived.

Not really interested in your thoughts about my post, it doesn't change the fact that jumping an arthritic, underweight, unfit horse that she considers so bad that it may need to be pts, is stupid. I take it you disagree?

showjumpingfilly
03-06-13, 09:22 PM
This thread is making me want to hit my head against a wall - hard.

OP I don't want to seem like I'm jumping on the bandwagon but actually, you haven't said several times you'll get a vet, you've mentioned a physio which is a start.

It must be hard realising they are getting older but everyone is only thinking of your horse - which is precisely the reason you posted the thread.

First of all, get the vet and physio to give him a good check over - it'll give you peace of mind if nothing else - you'd feel dreadful if something was hurting and you'd carried on - i know i would.

Personally i would take it a bit easier with him - march wasn't that long ago to take a horse from 2xride a week/full time stabling to competition fit/247 turnout.
Building him up with hacking with the odd short schooling.

To be honest I wouldn't stick at the same yard, get him closer to home, all year turnout and if you're unable to go twice a day find someone to help you out by giving him that second feed/once over.

I agree he doesn't look quite that comfortable at the moment so I think it would be wise to step back and assess the situation. Good luck.

snooples
03-06-13, 09:25 PM
Iv jumped him 4 times since feb all in the last 6 weeks.. He is underweight after winter but hes not unfit to jump around a course of showjumps. he doesnt even break a sweat after it.
I was only asking people what signs they usually look out for when they know its time to pts I never said I wanted to put him to sleep now. Iv also said numerous times Im more than happy to give him to a hacking home if i can find one.
I spend as much time as I can with him and do everything I can for him, if I didnt care would I be asking for advice

snooples
03-06-13, 09:30 PM
This thread is making me want to hit my head against a wall - hard.

OP I don't want to seem like I'm jumping on the bandwagon but actually, you haven't said several times you'll get a vet, you've mentioned a physio which is a start.

It must be hard realising they are getting older but everyone is only thinking of your horse - which is precisely the reason you posted the thread.

First of all, get the vet and physio to give him a good check over - it'll give you peace of mind if nothing else - you'd feel dreadful if something was hurting and you'd carried on - i know i would.

Personally i would take it a bit easier with him - march wasn't that long ago to take a horse from 2xride a week/full time stabling to competition fit/247 turnout.
Building him up with hacking with the odd short schooling.

To be honest I wouldn't stick at the same yard, get him closer to home, all year turnout and if you're unable to go twice a day find someone to help you out by giving him that second feed/once over.

I agree he doesn't look quite that comfortable at the moment so I think it would be wise to step back and assess the situation. Good luck.

Sorry If I didnt mention about the vet, iv kinda got mixed up with all the posts but i will get one.
Last year he was eventing, got placed in all his events but I felt this year eventing might be a bit much so thats why I decided to take the step down to showjumping only.
So I did take a step back, I took him to his first comp, got 3rd place the 2nd comp elim and now i relaise maybe the step from eventing to sj wasnt enough

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 09:35 PM
OK agaisnt my better judgement .
HOW DO YOU KNOW IT'S TIME TO SAY GOODBYE ,
You say good bye when despite seeking advice from the vet and medicating / treating as advised .
When you have provided regular physio help.
When you have had professionals checkthe teeth and the saddle are comfortable
When despite changing the food , the management and everything esle you can think of when you have turned every stone and have found no way forward when his eyes are dull and he looses his sparkle when he looks tired and no longer wants to go out and play with his mates .
Then , then that's the moment you know it's time .
Old horses deserve that we treat them with dignity and care and that often costs a lot ,my oldies often much more to keep than my young in work young ones.
If he's unsuitable for you to hack he's unsuitable for a stranger to hack .

sophiebailey
03-06-13, 09:43 PM
Hi OP, perhaps leave loose schooling over jumps as jumping a miss for now as if the vet diagnose arthritis he might find this uncomfortable with no pain relief.

My horse is 21 and has arthritis and the best thing for him is constant movement. So maybe start looking for a yard/field that you can have 24/7 turnout at for this winter? Cold weather and a stables arthritic are a bad combination :o

When the vet and physio have given their opinions you'll be in a better position to think about what work he can do going forward. Is it possible to hack out with friends so he has horsey friends to get excited with and make hacking more fun for him?

And about the tripping, is he due shoeing or trimming? Bailey is prone to tripping when his toes are long. I have got some knee boots for him just in case he ever trips over properly, maybe that would help? Although if he's not prone to tripping I would say maybe he did fall over something!!!

I hope you find out what's making him a bit sore, it's horrible when they start to show their age. All I would say on the topic of PTS is; if he's given you 10 years of his life and 10 years of brilliant fun, give him his retirement in return. If he doesn't cope well with his condition while he's on livery then look for grazing closer to home where there's ample grass and you can feed him as much as he needs. These places do exist you just need to search for them and flutter your eyelashes at farmers :-)

Noodles_3
03-06-13, 09:43 PM
Op I'm sorry but he doesn't look happy :( I didn't enjoy watching him 'jump'. I never really comment and I don't want to be harsh to you but like others have said, I do think it's for the best to stop the jumping and have him as a nice steady plod

Cherryade
03-06-13, 09:45 PM
Im sorry and maybe im wrong here but i get from your posts banging on about showjumping you love SJ more than the actuall Horse. Face facts, watch that video he isnt happy/excited to be jumping that and looks terribly uncomfortable altogether tbh. A miracle isnt going to happen over night, what ever he did last week, last year or any other time is in the past now and you have to deal with the present and future. If you cant offer him a slower paced life, more turnout etc no-one will judge you but at least do the right thing by this horse and PTS, dont pass him on as a happy hacker theres too many of old/unsound horses being sold as this and non of them have a very certain future.

showjumpingfilly
03-06-13, 09:51 PM
I cant quote as on phone, but I'm not saying he may never compete again - i just think he needs a bit more time to fitten up/be ready and a good all round health check (mine used to have one 6 monthly and anything in between)

Once you've seen your vet you'll have a better understanding of where to go from there. Keep us posted, the people replying don't want to sound harsh, they just want you to realise that he might not be quite up for the level you would like to be at.

morrismob
03-06-13, 09:53 PM
Sorry haven't read all the replies but my guy is 20 in January and he had a great time before last winter but it hit him hard, hacking was a little too much, vet out who said take it as you find it, he has had a great life and is at the mo out 24/7 being an uncle to my 3 year old but I am dreading this winter as he got so depressed during the last one, he couldn't go out much as the wet fields made his heel so bad. I guess I will know but its hard as he's happy as larry at the moment. Just the winter months:(

showpony
03-06-13, 09:53 PM
I'm in Ireland and use a fab osteopath, where in Ireland are you?

snooples
03-06-13, 09:53 PM
Hi OP, perhaps leave loose schooling over jumps as jumping a miss for now as if the vet diagnose arthritis he might find this uncomfortable with no pain relief.

My horse is 21 and has arthritis and the best thing for him is constant movement. So maybe start looking for a yard/field that you can have 24/7 turnout at for this winter? Cold weather and a stables arthritic are a bad combination :o

When the vet and physio have given their opinions you'll be in a better position to think about what work he can do going forward. Is it possible to hack out with friends so he has horsey friends to get excited with and make hacking more fun for him?

And about the tripping, is he due shoeing or trimming? Bailey is prone to tripping when his toes are long. I have got some knee boots for him just in case he ever trips over properly, maybe that would help? Although if he's not prone to tripping I would say maybe he did fall over something!!!

I hope you find out what's making him a bit sore, it's horrible when they start to show their age. All I would say on the topic of PTS is; if he's given you 10 years of his life and 10 years of brilliant fun, give him his retirement in return. If he doesn't cope well with his condition while he's on livery then look for grazing closer to home where there's ample grass and you can feed him as much as he needs. These places do exist you just need to search for them and flutter your eyelashes at farmers :-)


Thanks the last thing I want to do is give up on him and he feels great, its just the tripping was mainly worrying me!He wold find it very hard to winter out, he has a lot of TB and given the last few winters Id be kind of afraid!



Someone just commented that I seem to love sj more than him well why woudl i be on here if thats the case. I never mentioned once about any plan of competing him anytime soon, i clearly stated i dropped him down from eventing to sj to see how that would go and now im considering my options.

snooples
03-06-13, 09:54 PM
I'm in Ireland and use a fab osteopath, where in Ireland are you?

cork!

snooples
03-06-13, 09:56 PM
Sorry haven't read all the replies but my guy is 20 in January and he had a great time before last winter but it hit him hard, hacking was a little too much, vet out who said take it as you find it, he has had a great life and is at the mo out 24/7 being an uncle to my 3 year old but I am dreading this winter as he got so depressed during the last one, he couldn't go out much as the wet fields made his heel so bad. I guess I will know but its hard as he's happy as larry at the moment. Just the winter months:(

I know how you feel! the winter really takes it out of them
heres my fella before the winter

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8511/8595463843_cfa228d227.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94091423@N04/8595463843/) 18813_10151281082084246_529689766_n (http://www.flickr.com/photos/94091423@N04/8595463843/) by snooples17 (http://www.flickr.com/people/94091423@N04/), on Flickr

sophiebailey
03-06-13, 10:05 PM
I'm sure with plenty of hay(fibre) and a good conditioning feed twice a day he would be fine :-) you'll be suprised about how they toughen up!! Movement really is the best thing for a stiff older pony. During the winter horses are supposed to drop a bit of weight, the natural order of things and all that :-)

and try not to take it to heart, it's easy to mis-interpret the written word on forums, you obviously think a lot of your horse and its great you're going to get him checked out by vets etc, hopefully it's easily fixable for you!!

morrismob
03-06-13, 10:07 PM
I can't upload a photo of mine as I don't know how to but good luck he looks great x

snooples
03-06-13, 10:09 PM
I'm sure with plenty of hay(fibre) and a good conditioning feed twice a day he would be fine :-) you'll be suprised about how they toughen up!! Movement really is the best thing for a stiff older pony. During the winter horses are supposed to drop a bit of weight, the natural order of things and all that :-)

and try not to take it to heart, it's easy to mis-interpret the written word on forums, you obviously think a lot of your horse and its great you're going to get him checked out by vets etc, hopefully it's easily fixable for you!!

Thank you! :)

He is on Baileys top line conditioning and chaff as well as out 24 7. Now that he has had a bath and his hairy coat is nearly gone he is starting to look like he did last year.

And in the nearly 4 months he has been in work he has been almost perfect everyday besides refusing one fence and whatever he tripped on the hack on saturday.
Its always the one leg behind that got stiff over winter so my guess would be there is arthritis creeping into that leg so hopefully the vet can help with that

Garnet
03-06-13, 10:12 PM
Hi Snooples,

Some of the people who have posted on your thread seem to use as few words as possible to get their point across without explaining their reasoning or giving examples, and perhaps that posting style has come across as attacking or aggressive in this case?

I can see from what you have written that you do care about your horse and you have had him a long time, but now you need to look at him through fresh eyes and see him as an older horse and adjust his workload according to his comfort levels.

I want to share the story of my horse and how I have adjusted his workload over his lifetime to suit his needs. My horse is almost 28 and I am going to be saying goodbye to him in the next month or so. I have had him for 23 years and he was my event horse and I loved jumping him more than anything else on earth when he was young and loved it too. However, I retired him from eventing at nine years old because he started refusing, (which he had never done before), so I knew that I needed to stop jumping until I found out why he was refusing. He was sound at the time, so I wondered if he was bored of competing, so we just hacked for a while until he became slightly lame and I called the vet. The vet diagnosed (with x-rays) that his pedal bones were parallel to the floor instead of at the correct angle and so his feet hurt. After remedial shoeing in the correct alignment and balance, his feet no longer hurt and we continued as happy hackers, exploring great long rides and jumping logs, branches and puddles, acting as nanny to young horses going cross-country schooling over baby jumps etc. We were able to do a few (a couple per year, with approporiate fitness build-up) low-level show-jumping competitions, hunter trials and sponsored rides with jumps. This continued until he was 20, when he started refusing jumps again, so although he was sound, I retired him from jumping.

For the last eight years we have just hacked - initially we would go out for a couple of hours at all paces but over time he has let me know what he is comfortable doing, and the last time I rode him, about a month ago, it was just for a gentle trundle for 45 minutes in walk. Over these last eight years, he started having some Danilon to keep him comfortable (plus Cortaflex and Veteran feeds), starting at one sachet of Danilon every three days and then increasing to one sachet every two days and for the last three years, he has been one one sachet per day for a 500kg horse. I said to myself that I would not go to a higher dosage and so when he couldn't get up in the field without assistance over the Bank Holiday weekend, I immediately knew that we were nearing the end. I called the vet and she has increased his Danilon to two sachets per day to make him comfortable while I let him enjoy a couple of weeks of fabulous grass and sunshine (because it has been so cold that he has barely been out without a rug on and our livery yard has only just opened up the summer fields from 1st June).

Now I really know it is time for me to say goodbye to my horse of a lifetime, so I hope you can learn from my experience to listen to your horse. Make sure that you call a vet whenever you need help to decide whether he is in discomfort and then adjust his work to suit his needs.

Good luck, and enjoy your changing relationship as you listen deeply to what he is telling you.

Billie1007
03-06-13, 10:12 PM
Oh good, you're going to get the vet. I'm glad. And you now don't think it is time?

Billie1007
03-06-13, 10:15 PM
That's a lovely post Garnet, your boy is very lucky to have you and I am sorry you will lose him.

Sorry if my brief posts offend but you really don't need to be a brainiac to work out a vet needs to be consulted here. It has taken 10 pages for OP to agree that he might need to see a vet.

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 10:16 PM
Hi Snooples,

Some of the people who have posted on your thread seem to use as few words as possible to get their point across without explaining their reasoning or giving examples, and perhaps that posting style has come across as attacking or aggressive in this case?

I can see from what you have written that you do care about your horse and you have had him a long time, but now you need to look at him through fresh eyes and see him as an older horse and adjust his workload according to his comfort levels.

I want to share the story of my horse and how I have adjusted his workload over his lifetime to suit his needs. My horse is almost 28 and I am going to be saying goodbye to him in the next month or so. I have had him for 23 years and he was my event horse and I loved jumping him more than anything else on earth when he was young and loved it too. However, I retired him from eventing at nine years old because he started refusing, (which he had never done before), so I knew that I needed to stop jumping until I found out why he was refusing. He was sound at the time, so I wondered if he was bored of competing, so we just hacked for a while until he became slightly lame and I called the vet. The vet diagnosed (with x-rays) that his pedal bones were parallel to the floor instead of at the correct angle and so his feet hurt. After remedial shoeing in the correct alignment and balance, his feet no longer hurt and we continued as happy hackers, exploring great long rides and jumping logs, branches and puddles, acting as nanny to young horses going cross-country schooling over baby jumps etc. We were able to do a few (a couple per year, with approporiate fitness build-up) low-level show-jumping competitions, hunter trials and sponsored rides with jumps. This continued until he was 20, when he started refusing jumps again, so although he was sound, I retired him from jumping.

For the last eight years we have just hacked - initially we would go out for a couple of hours at all paces but over time he has let me know what he is comfortable doing, and the last time I rode him, about a month ago, it was just for a gentle trundle for 45 minutes in walk. Over these last eight years, he started having some Danilon to keep him comfortable (plus Cortaflex and Veteran feeds), starting at one sachet of Danilon every three days and then increasing to one sachet every two days and for the last three years, he has been one one sachet per day for a 500kg horse. I said to myself that I would not go to a higher dosage and so when he couldn't get up in the field without assistance over the Bank Holiday weekend, I immediately knew that we were nearing the end. I called the vet and she has increased his Danilon to two sachets per day to make him comfortable while I let him enjoy a couple of weeks of fabulous grass and sunshine (because it has been so cold that he has barely been out without a rug on and our livery yard has only just opened up the summer fields from 1st June).

Now I really know it is time for me to say goodbye to my horse of a lifetime, so I hope you can learn from my experience to listen to your horse. Make sure that you call a vet whenever you need help to decide whether he is in discomfort and then adjust his work to suit his needs.

Good luck, and enjoy your changing relationship as you listen deeply to what he is telling you.

This a lovely post and what every horse would get in the ideal world.

sophiebailey
03-06-13, 10:24 PM
Wonderful advice Garnet. Sorry you're going to be losing your horse soon but sounds like he's had a perfect life with you, really heart warming to read what you've done for him :-)

snooples
03-06-13, 10:25 PM
Thanks Garnet, lovely post.
I am going to take things easy with my fella I had no comps planned with him anytime soon anyway. He never gave any indication that things werent right, he jsut kept jumping away until that fence that caused the problem, but he jumped another one right after with no problems.
So I dont see why people are jumping down my throat as if he was refusing regualrly it would be an obvious sign.

anyway sounds like im making excuses but what im trying to say is he hasnt done anything wrong which would immmediately warrant a vet but i knew something wasnt 100% which is why i asked for help on here and now im going to do something about it.
I love him more than anything and he follows me around the yard like a dog, i call him from the field he comes up no need for lead rope and he follows me wherever I go and I want to do everything I can so he is feeling the best he can

morrismob
03-06-13, 10:31 PM
Garnett such a lovely post, your guy and you sound such a good team and you have been a very caring owner who has listened every step of the way to your horse and my heart goes out to you.

To some of the other posters it would be great in an ideal world to everything possible to keep your horse happy and healthy right to the end. I don't know how old the op is or how much experience she has in older horses but I do think she is trying to do the right thing by her horse. Perhaps not in the way you would do.

My lovely old guy who I haven't owned for years and years but has been the best horse I have ever had, has a condition with his heels that makes going out in wet fields very painful for him. He is kept at home and what with last summer and then this winter it has been a nightmare to keep him happy and comfortable. The vet cannot really help him and the farrier has done everything possible. At the mo is out 24/7 in the dry fields and is very happy a bit fat (!) but this winter is going to be hard if its wet again. There is only so much turnout in the school he can tolerate and my fields get wet ( clay) so I should move him to sandy soils away from all he knows and loves here ?

Cut the op some slack she is trying to help her horse and doesn't need the short terse answers from some of you. You have a lot of advice ..... so give it in a properly explained answer... please :D

Billie1007
03-06-13, 10:50 PM
Again, I'm sorry if my posting style offends but sometimes there is no need for a saga. I don't think the op has necessarily done everything right by her horse so far. He is poor, yet she doesn't have time for two feeds a day, he is unfit and jumped. I don't doubt for one minute that OP doesn't love this horse, he looks adorable. For those joining at the end of this thread the first half takes rather a different tone. Focus is on rider rather than horse as far as I can see. Horse has shown arthritic signs for some time yet no vet.

I'm banging a broken drum here (just made that saying up) but I think anyone who doesn't think he might need to be assessed - needs to be assessed :)

Goldenstar
03-06-13, 10:52 PM
Garnett such a lovely post, your guy and you sound such a good team and you have been a very caring owner who has listened every step of the way to your horse and my heart goes out to you.

To some of the other posters it would be great in an ideal world to everything possible to keep your horse happy and healthy right to the end. I don't know how old the op is or how much experience she has in older horses but I do think she is trying to do the right thing by her horse. Perhaps not in the way you would do.

My lovely old guy who I haven't owned for years and years but has been the best horse I have ever had, has a condition with his heels that makes going out in wet fields very painful for him. He is kept at home and what with last summer and then this winter it has been a nightmare to keep him happy and comfortable. The vet cannot really help him and the farrier has done everything possible. At the mo is out 24/7 in the dry fields and is very happy a bit fat (!) but this winter is going to be hard if its wet again. There is only so much turnout in the school he can tolerate and my fields get wet ( clay) so I should move him to sandy soils away from all he knows and loves here ?

Cut the op some slack she is trying to help her horse and doesn't need the short terse answers from some of you. You have a lot of advice ..... so give it in a properly explained answer... please :D

There's is no need for a post to rival war and peace to say get the vet.

snooples
03-06-13, 10:57 PM
Again, I'm sorry if my posting style offends but sometimes there is no need for a saga. I don't think the op has necessarily done everything right by her horse so far. He is poor, yet she doesn't have time for two feeds a day, he is unfit and jumped. I don't doubt for one minute that OP doesn't love this horse, he looks adorable. For those joining at the end of this thread the first half takes rather a different tone. Focus is on rider rather than horse as far as I can see. Horse has shown arthritic signs for some time yet no vet.

I'm banging a broken drum here (just made that saying up) but I think anyone who doesn't think he might need to be assessed - needs to be assessed :)

I work 8 to 5 everyday and live nowhere near my horse so I get out to him once a day, he has unlimited grass so its not like hes starving.

He is not unfit he is worked 4 or 5 times a week since mid feb, along with ridden once or twice a week before that, more than enough fitness to get around a sj course.

Horse has showed no sign of arthritis with me, iv heard he was stiff the day after he was hunter trialled, might have nothing to do with arthritis. No problems last year when I evented him. Hes not as supple as he was but thats obviously to be expected like is a 60 year old as supple as a 20 year old, no, its natural! but he is getting joint supplement to help and il get a vet out incase its something more than life taking its toll

Cherryade
03-06-13, 11:07 PM
I work 8 to 5 everyday and live nowhere near my horse so I get out to him once a day, he has unlimited grass so its not like hes starving.

He is not unfit he is worked 4 or 5 times a week since mid feb, along with ridden once or twice a week before that, more than enough fitness to get around a sj course.

Horse has showed no sign of arthritis with me, iv heard he was stiff the day after he was hunter trialled, might have nothing to do with arthritis. No problems last year when I evented him. Hes not as supple as he was but thats obviously to be expected like is a 60 year old as supple as a 20 year old, no, its natural! but he is getting joint supplement to help and il get a vet out incase its something more than life taking its toll


You dont seem willing to admit he may have to give up, you throw the words sj and eventing in yes we get the idea now. You said it yourself your asking a 60year old to do a 20 year olds job, yes some may do it untill much later in life but honestly i think your horse wants a quieter life now.

snooples
03-06-13, 11:11 PM
You dont seem willing to admit he may have to give up, you throw the words sj and eventing in yes we get the idea now. You said it yourself your asking a 60year old to do a 20 year olds job, yes some may do it untill much later in life but honestly i think your horse wants a quieter life now.

iv said numerous times iv no intention of comepeting him anytime soon.
He evented successfully last year and this year i dropped him to just showjumping and even though he was placed first day out iv decided to stop with this too.

the reason i made this thread was because he winters badly, and if hes in no sort of work during the winter then he will stiffen right up
il have to find a hacking home for him and if not then i dunno what to do...

Cherryade
03-06-13, 11:29 PM
iv said numerous times iv no intention of comepeting him anytime soon.
He evented successfully last year and this year i dropped him to just showjumping and even though he was placed first day out iv decided to stop with this too.

the reason i made this thread was because he winters badly, and if hes in no sort of work during the winter then he will stiffen right up
il have to find a hacking home for him and if not then i dunno what to do...

Anytime soon doesnt mean never. Why does everything have to be so formal ie competing,eventing,Sj why not just have some fun with him. Youve been given some good advice off various different posters read it back, get the vet and re-assess after that it doesnt have to be all or nothing find somewhere in-between. If you only want him to 'compete' which i said before i think that comes before the horse sadly hes not going to be able to keep up with this, why cant you hack him? and tbh if you wanted to do right by your very talented sj PTS would be kindest.

snooples
03-06-13, 11:32 PM
There is no point ruling out anything completely, many people in this thread have said the exact same. I only competed 4 times last year so its not like its that big of a deal to me. but its nice to go out and do well with a horse whos like my best friend.
Im moving away again in Sep which is why the decision is coming up, he cant spend another winter doing nothing and il only be home the odd weekend.

Cherryade
03-06-13, 11:43 PM
There is no point ruling out anything completely, many people in this thread have said the exact same. I only competed 4 times last year so its not like its that big of a deal to me. but its nice to go out and do well with a horse whos like my best friend.
Im moving away again in Sep which is why the decision is coming up, he cant spend another winter doing nothing and il only be home the odd weekend.

Sorry just looked back on previous threads and found this

So riding club national championship qualifiers are this weekend and my old man horse
(some of you might recognise him as the grey laidback horse lolling over a x pole in the vid I posted a couple of days ago)
has not jumped a showjumping round since September as I was away all winter and he only came back into work with me about 2 months ago and another horse has got priority over him.
SO i was supposed to bring him to a small sj league last fri for a practice run and this fri and next fri as I thought the sj qualifier was next week.
Anyway couldnt make it last fri in the end then realsied qualifer is this weekend que


Anyway to my dilemma, ideally Id jump him tomorrow as a quick warm up however it has not rained in AGES (for once) and ground is on the firm side. He is old and I dont wont to jump him on hard ground but at the same time going into a qualifer so out of practice is scaring me ha.


Its the only qualifer anywhere near me so wont get a chance to qualify again!

So basically my question is should i jump him on the hardish ground as a warm up or just go in all guns blazing sunday and hope for the best

:eek:
You cannot expect him to jump when and how you want because it suits you.Hes a horse not a machine if you cant be bothered to put the time in your in the wrong game. If your going away in September again just let him have the summer to enjoy himself.

snooples
03-06-13, 11:50 PM
what do you mean i cant expect him to jump how and when i want, do your horses tell you when they want to go out.

He was completely fit when i asked that and was just unsure wether to run him on a practice round to get back in the swing of things or go straight to the qualifier, both were only 90s!

Hes jumped plenty of showjumping rounds through the years and i can count the poles down on one hand.

He was totally prepared and went out and came third at his first showjumping round with a double clear

Cherryade
03-06-13, 11:56 PM
what do you mean i cant expect him to jump how and when i want, do your horses tell you when they want to go out.

He was completely fit when i asked that and was just unsure wether to run him on a practice round to get back in the swing of things or go straight to the qualifier, both were only 90s!

Hes jumped plenty of showjumping rounds through the years and i can count the poles down on one hand.

He was totally prepared and went out and came third at his first showjumping round with a double clear

No i mean you cant expect him to be competition fit when YOU have given priority to another horse. Im out of this thread im sure with all your years of showjumping and eventing experience you know just what to do.:rolleyes:

snooples
04-06-13, 12:04 AM
No i mean you cant expect him to be competition fit when YOU have given priority to another horse. Im out of this thread im sure with all your years of showjumping and eventing experience you know just what to do.:rolleyes:

By priority I meant the other horse went to training events before him not that he wasnt in work. He has years of experience and theres no point doing too much work.

Some people here have been so rude, i do everything i can for my horse yet im made out to be someone who totally neglets him.
He has shown no signs that he wants to stop jumping besides ONE refusal, how many people on here never jump their horse again after they refuse once....I went for a gallop with him last week and i just wanted it to be a slow one but he kept pulling to go faster and have some fun.

One thing is for certain anyway after this, I will NEVER be posting here again asking for advice. Many of the things people have said have me in tears, i would never do anything to hurt my horse.

Em123
04-06-13, 03:56 AM
Some people should not be allowed horses.
Poor old boy

honetpot
04-06-13, 06:01 AM
I have a 28 year old, he work load has decreased over the years and now he goes out for a gentle hack twice a week. Often he comes charging across the field and seems to have the enthusiasm of a young horse, but I know he is not so he is fed, rugged and worked accordingly. He is a horse and has no conception of the consequences of his actions and we are humans who are supposed to have the knowledge to protect them.
If you can not find a yard that is suitable to HIS needs, and as you are away for a large part of year does it matter if he moves yards and you will not the take the very good advice offered perhaps it would be best if you had him PTS.
Judging from your replies you do not want to take good advice and we are all wasting our time.

Billie1007
04-06-13, 06:14 AM
Brick wall. She doesn't get it.

Partridg3
04-06-13, 06:41 AM
I don't normally get involved but he looks a lot older than 20 in that video. It's like watching a pensioner trying to skip. He looks stiff and I own a 21 and 26 year old. See, I would take him and look after him as a retiree but I would want his owner to pay his costs because that's the right thing to do for an old boy who has given you his life. He's certainly not at deaths door but he needs a rest IMO.

Chan
04-06-13, 06:43 AM
I wasn't going to comment, but I've been in your position before. You post an innocent enough thread and then the next thing you know you're on page 12 with hundreds of overwhelming replies!

Sometimes they can be hurtful and you feel like you've repeated yourself hundreds of times, but they are just trying to help (most of the time!)
Ignore the personal digs and concentrate on the ones who want to help you and your horse! Easier said than done, I know, but it does sound like they're right this time...

...Get a vet (which you are doing, I think I read?), give him a rest and go from there :)

PeterNatt
04-06-13, 07:06 AM
Your horse has been a good friend to you and deserves to be treated well in his later years.

I would recommend that you get a vet in to thoroughly check your horse out especially checking for any lameness/stiffness, teeth, eyesight, heart etc.

I would not jump your horse anymore and would just regularly exercise him at a walk.

I would find alternative stabling for him where he can have daily turn-out during the day and stabled at night on a nice deep bed. Keep him rugged at night when it is cold or windy so as to keep the draught off him. Also put a waterproof rug on him if it is likely to rain.

It may be that he needs some more specific feed and additives which has been formulated for elderly horses.

He may also need different shoes if he is shod such as rolled toes on his front.

I wish you both good luck and hope that you take every precaution to look after your horse in his latter years. He deserves it!

touchstone
04-06-13, 07:09 AM
Thanks Garnet, lovely post.
I am going to take things easy with my fella I had no comps planned with him anytime soon anyway. He never gave any indication that things werent right, he jsut kept jumping away until that fence that caused the problem, but he jumped another one right after with no problems.
So I dont see why people are jumping down my throat as if he was refusing regualrly it would be an obvious sign.

anyway sounds like im making excuses but what im trying to say is he hasnt done anything wrong which would immmediately warrant a vet but i knew something wasnt 100% which is why i asked for help on here and now im going to do something about it.
I love him more than anything and he follows me around the yard like a dog, i call him from the field he comes up no need for lead rope and he follows me wherever I go and I want to do everything I can so he is feeling the best he can

Some horses won't refuse doing what they love, but they suffer for it afterwards, a bit like humans when the mind is willing but the body is weak.

If he is always as stiff as in your vid, I'm afraid I wouldn't be jumping at all, and would get a vet for advice, you are right that it isn't an emergency, but he looks to be in obvious discomfort and some pain relief might make all the difference to him - I still wouldn't be jumping him however.

He could have plenty of happy active years left in him if allowed plenty of turnout and a lighter workload. I've known many horses who do better in winter turned out well rugged and fed than stiffening up in a stable; until you try then you will never know. I think if you can't offer him a quieter life and he is deteriorating then it is kinder to pts. It is hard when our much loved horses age and start to slow down, but something that happens to every horse, and some much younger than yours.

There's no point getting upset about comments, rather better to take it on the chin and review what your horse is doing. Sometimes when we are so close to a horse it can make it more difficult to spot a slow deterioration and I think that this may be the case because your horse is apparently happy to jump.

Elliesmemory1
04-06-13, 07:10 AM
You are putting what you want before the health and well being of your horse.

That horse is not up to jumping anymore, he looks sore and un happy.

I feel you want someone to tell you to have him put to sleep because hes does not winter well.

He needs a mot with vet and dentist and some decent food, and STOP JUMPING, He needs some tlc and you you should bee putting him before your own selfish and childish need to compete

Spotsrock
04-06-13, 07:25 AM
There is a girl on my old yard who said her horse was 20 when it arrived 2 years ago now says 19, education system working there then! Any way it belts into its jumps and leaps them them lurches into its forehand and takes ages to stop. Shes always yanking its mouth and hitting it telling it off for rushing and jumps every time she rides.

Anyone,even my friends in experienced 13 yo can see it only rushes to get enough oomph to get over the jump as its back end totally doesn't work, then gets off the back end asap afterwards as in pain.

Girl doesn't listen just keeps knocking years off its age and doing as she pleases which is leaving it stood in field for weeks at a time in mid weight rug then turning up once racking it over load jumps and chucking back out. The other girls try to deal with horse's basic needs but can't afford to supplement it as all teens on budget paying to look after their own horses.

So sad when they get old with no dignity. On Bute this horse would probably be happier, ops may too but vet will decide.

Op made comment early in this thread about being no good to anybody. My 33 year old is the best darn field companion ever and so much use even though she stopped jumping 12 years ago and retired fully 2 years ago.

snooples
04-06-13, 07:36 AM
Thanks formally the helpful replies. Hes getting some good food and has a lightweight waterproof rug for if it rains.
I think some people go out of their way to be rude, iv explained numerous times he's only jumped 4 Times since he came into work he spends about 90 percent of his time in walk and trot.

Elliesmemory1
04-06-13, 07:42 AM
I dont think people go out of their way to be rude, you just seem blind to what people are saying and to the condition of your horse. You need to take a long hard look at him and try to see what everyone else can see. Hes not enjoying jumping, hes in some discomfort and he is not jumping for fun!

snooples
04-06-13, 07:45 AM
And iv taken on board everything that everyone has said I dunno why people seem to think other whys? if you have to post hurtful and rude comments to a stranger asking for a bit of help on a forum then something isn't right.

And at this stage I'm happy with all advice given and going to take it from here with my horse

I WOULD LIKE THIS THREAD CLOSED PLEASE

snooples
04-06-13, 07:47 AM
And you say people aren't been rude, iv been called stupid an idiot and told I shouldn't be allowed own a horse along with other things. Just coz I didn't get a vet out last night doesn't mean I won't get one out as soon as I can

Billie1007
04-06-13, 07:49 AM
Again, selective reading. Nobody suggested you should get a vet out last night. Several people have made it clear that a vet's visit os not an emergency but a priority.

'People' have not been rude. I was rude when I said you were stupid. I don't recall anybody calling you an idiot.

MurphysMinder
04-06-13, 07:51 AM
I very rarely comment on these kind of threads, but in this case I have to. To answer your question, I don't think its time to say goodbye to him, but I do think its time to give him a rest. We have 2 x 20 year olds and 1 x 25 year old, only one is still in work and he is sound and came out of the winter looking in peak condition. The other 2 are now retired, but are actually both on diets because they have too much weight on them.
Try and watch your video as if it was someone elses horse, and I think you will agree he doesn't look happy. Our 25 year old still takes herself for mad hoons round the field every day, and if there were jumps in the way I am sure she would fly them, but she certainly won't ever be asked to jump again.
If he were my horse I would let the vet give him a thorough check over and then decide from there what you are going to do. If the vet advises letting him live life at a slower pace, and this is not what you want for yourself, then maybe pts is the way to go rather than passing him on. It is not what I would do with an oldie but it is better that than him going on to an unknown future imo.

Wagtail
04-06-13, 08:12 AM
theres no chance of him being a happy hacker, all he wants to do is jump he hates hacking!



Absolute rubbish! All horses can happily get used to an easier life. How can you even think of going from jumping double clears to PTS? After ten years don't you owe him more than that? I think what you mean by your sentence above is that YOU don't want to be a happy hacker, and all you want to do is jump. Which is absolutely fine, why not? Just be honest with yourself.

snooples
04-06-13, 08:17 AM
We only have one road in the area and he is pretty bored of it right now, I spend the majority of my time hacking as I said we competed 4 times during the whole of last year, competing him isn't that big of a deal and iv stated if another horse anyway. But I really don't think he would be happy walking that road everyday

amymay
04-06-13, 08:19 AM
We only have one road in the area and he is pretty bored of it right now, I spend the majority of my time hacking as I said we competed 4 times during the whole of last year, competing him isn't that big of a deal and iv stated if another horse anyway. But I really don't think he would be happy walking that road everyday

I get the feeling your looking to a bunch of strangers for the approval of putting your horse down.

But, your horse, your decision.

snooples
04-06-13, 08:20 AM
And I never said he was going to be pts the thread was asking ppl how they decided so I could look out for the signs, he is happy in himself and won't b going anywhere

snooples
04-06-13, 08:24 AM
What Il prob do after vet comes out and I if I get the ok is hacking 2 or 3 Times, schooling once to keep him supple and maybe another day with different ground poles to keep his mind interested but nothing too physical

Wagtail
04-06-13, 08:25 AM
And I never said he was going to be pts the thread was asking ppl how they decided so I could look out for the signs, he is happy in himself and won't b going anywhere

No, you didn't say those actual words, but your thread is titles 'how do you know it's time to say goodbye?' Which implies you are thinking of 'getting rid'. You then go on to say that he could not be a companion or a happy hacker as 'he would hate it'. So what is left? Does he float off on a cloud? :confused:

RunToEarth
04-06-13, 08:37 AM
And you say people aren't been rude, iv been called stupid an idiot and told I shouldn't be allowed own a horse along with other things. Just coz I didn't get a vet out last night doesn't mean I won't get one out as soon as I can

My understanding is that you have had since February to get a vet out, from that 9 second video alone I would have called the vet, that poor horse isn't right at all.

I had an oldie that LIVED for jumping, she threw her first stop out hunting at 24 over a fence she had jumped a hundred times, I called it a day with her there and then and she had absolutely no issues being my beloved hacker - you owe it to your horse to give him a proper wind down in life, please don't jump him anymore.

As a complete aside, cantering along grass verges is very dangerous, not just for potholes but also litter now it is summer time and the grass is too long to see what is lurking under there.

amymay
04-06-13, 08:44 AM
I'm also sure it's been said before (but just in case), one of the quickest ways for a horse to drop condition is pain. (You say the horse is worse in winter, and this winter in particular). A course of Bute could possibly have made an enormous difference to him then (and now), in terms of general wellbeing.

be positive
04-06-13, 08:45 AM
We only have one road in the area and he is pretty bored of it right now, I spend the majority of my time hacking as I said we competed 4 times during the whole of last year, competing him isn't that big of a deal and iv stated if another horse anyway. But I really don't think he would be happy walking that road everyday

It it up to you to make some changes the hacking is obviously not great, the care was definitely not good last winter so there is an obvious solution once you have had him checked over to start looking for a more suitable place to keep him before next winter when you go away, if you cannot do this try and find a loan home where he will be cared for during the winter and get turned out daily.

snooples
04-06-13, 08:59 AM
Thanks for the replies ideally I'd get him a loan home when I'm gone but trying to find someone to take him on won't be easy I fear

After the vid I put him on equine America joint supplement and a kelp one so that vid isn't exactly what he us like right now.

Billie1007
04-06-13, 10:22 AM
It's taken you 15 pages to suggest you are infact supporting him?

Why is it best he goes on loan?

snooples
04-06-13, 10:50 AM
It's taken you 15 pages to suggest you are infact supporting him?

Why is it best he goes on loan?


why do you continue to post if you dont bother to read.

when have i ever said im not supporting, iv said from the first page or two he has been getting joint supplements and baileys top line conditioning mix....
Unfortunately for me im in a very very bad finacial situation so getting a vet and physio out is not something i can regularly afford to do, i tried the supplement which i think is working well, iv no current video but il get a vet and physio out anyway to give him a full once over and plan his future fitness.


iv also stated more than once im not going to be around this winter and as many people have said, exercise is best which he wont get where he currently is hence the loan.....

amymay
04-06-13, 10:52 AM
why do you continue to post if you dont bother to read.

when have i ever said im not supporting, iv said from the first page or two he has been getting joint supplements and baileys top line conditioning mix....
Unfortunately for me im in a very very bad finacial situation so getting a vet and physio out is not something i can regularly afford to do, i tried the supplement which i think is working well, iv no current video but il get a vet and physio out anyway to give him a full once over and plan his future fitness.


iv also stated more than once im not going to be around this winter and as many people have said, exercise is best which he wont get where he currently is hence the loan.....

No one has said get the vet regularly. One visit was probably all that was needed to assess, and prescribe Bute. Feeding a horse isn't 'supporting' it - it's meeting it's basic requirements.

Bottom line, if you can't afford the horse - have it put down.

snooples
04-06-13, 10:56 AM
No one has said get the vet regularly. One visit was probably all that was needed to assess, and prescribe Bute. Feeding a horse isn't 'supporting' it - it's meeting it's basic requirements.

Bottom line, if you can't afford the horse - have it put down.

And this might be what has to happen, clearly given peoples responses I cant look after a horse at all and hes just suffering with me

hihosilver
04-06-13, 10:58 AM
OP horses like him are loyal and faithful...he is jumping because he wants to please you. He is hating jumping which is clear for all to see. You must stop with wishful thinking. He would much rather be relaxing in a field rather that being ridden and jumped. LOOK AT THE VIDEO!!!! he is in a lot of pain. Do the right thing call the vet, get some pain relief and love him for what he is- a stiff loyal old horse who would be better off being PTS or being retired. You must do the right thing by him.

amymay
04-06-13, 10:58 AM
And this might be what has to happen, clearly given peoples responses I cant look after a horse at all and hes just suffering with me

You don't need to be quite so melodramatic. But yes, you probably could have supported him better.

snooples
04-06-13, 11:07 AM
Im more than happy to take it easy with him esp if the vet says so but you cant tell from one video that he hates jumping and is in a load of pain

he is on supplements now and isnt anywhere near as stiff as he was then, he is the sort of horse who puts in the min effort required to clear a jump, hes not a big extragavent jumper and never has been.
he has given me plenty of happy memories so im not going to push him anymore but i dont need ppl making out like im the worst owner in history
As iv already said i dropped eventing last year and was hoping to only showjump, we did two rounds and i realised this prob wasnt for him either and i came on here asking for help as he is my first old horse and i dont know exactly what to look out for

amymay
04-06-13, 11:13 AM
Im more than happy to take it easy with him esp if the vet says so but you cant tell from one video that he hates jumping and is in a load of pain

I've only seen one video - and from that video I'd say he was a horse that shouldn't be jumping anymore (regardless of whether he likes it).

hihosilver
04-06-13, 11:16 AM
I've only seen one video - and from that video I'd say he was a horse that shouldn't be jumping anymore (regardless of whether he likes it).

^^^^

EXACTLY

Elliesmemory1
04-06-13, 11:16 AM
OP you keep contradicting yourself im afraid, one miniute you cant keep him as a hack the next you are williing to let him take life easy.

Try and be honest with yourself.

I get the feeling you want to have him pts because hes not up to want you what to do. If thats the case be honest about it.

I dont think anyone said you should get the vet everyday! Hes a old horse who needs some tlc in his old age.

snooples
04-06-13, 11:18 AM
I can give him an easy life while im still around until Sep it is after that the problem arises as I wont be here

BlackVelvet
04-06-13, 11:21 AM
Im more than happy to take it easy with him esp if the vet says so but you cant tell from one video that he hates jumping and is in a load of pain

he is on supplements now and isnt anywhere near as stiff as he was then, he is the sort of horse who puts in the min effort required to clear a jump, hes not a big extragavent jumper and never has been.
he has given me plenty of happy memories so im not going to push him anymore but i dont need ppl making out like im the worst owner in history
As iv already said i dropped eventing last year and was hoping to only showjump, we did two rounds and i realised this prob wasnt for him either and i came on here asking for help as he is my first old horse and i dont know exactly what to look out for

I dont think your the worst owner in the world at all, I think sometimes they age so quickly that you barely notice. From the video i think he looks old and stiff (as you already know) alot of horses his age look like this. Its common for older horses to suffer with various illnesses (cushings, arthritis etc) If he isnt wintering very well then that is something you need to address and find out why he isnt coping well. Lets be fair, no one is an expert. From the look of him he isnt on deaths door but I dont think it would hurt him to have a quieter life for this summer then maybe make a choice as winter approaches if he still doesnt look great? Its never nice when they get old, and heartbreaking when they are your first horse.

amymay
04-06-13, 11:22 AM
I can give him an easy life while im still around until Sep it is after that the problem arises as I wont be here

So either way you'd be looking to get rid of by September - sound or not.

So you have a few options. Loan as companion, quiet hack, put on retirement livery, put down.

showpony
04-06-13, 11:26 AM
This guy is in Cork at the end of this week, meant to be very good

http://kilkennyosteopath.com/Equine.html

snooples
04-06-13, 11:28 AM
I dont think your the worst owner in the world at all, I think sometimes they age so quickly that you barely notice. From the video i think he looks old and stiff (as you already know) alot of horses his age look like this. Its common for older horses to suffer with various illnesses (cushings, arthritis etc) If he isnt wintering very well then that is something you need to address and find out why he isnt coping well. Lets be fair, no one is an expert. From the look of him he isnt on deaths door but I dont think it would hurt him to have a quieter life for this summer then maybe make a choice as winter approaches if he still doesnt look great? Its never nice when they get old, and heartbreaking when they are your first horse.

Thank you for the nice reply, I do try my best with him and Im just learning as Im going as I said its my first older horse.
I cant stop crying over some of the replies so its nice to get one like yours :)

Billie1007
04-06-13, 11:38 AM
You're right. You did mention a supplement on page four.

ladyt25
04-06-13, 11:38 AM
I think some posters are being quite harsh and frankly nasty and abusive. There is no need for it imo. I personally don't call the vet for every little thing otherwise I'd be bankrupt! If my horse is showing signs of stiffness I would consult a physio before a vet. Recently we got a vet to look at my pony who was having print moving easily. What did the vet say? Get a physio! So that was a waste of 100. I generally now get the vet after I've tried a physio/farrier etc. I don't think you can judge the wellbeing of a horse either from a few seconds of video. Op you have had some good advice so if I were you I would put it to good use and avoid becoming upset by returning to the thread or trying to justify yourself when clearly some posters just want to twist everything because they clearly are 'so experienced and know better'!

Goldenstar
04-06-13, 11:46 AM
I think some posters are being quite harsh and frankly nasty and abusive. There is no need for it imo. I personally don't call the vet for every little thing otherwise I'd be bankrupt! If my horse is showing signs of stiffness I would consult a physio before a vet. Recently we got a vet to look at my pony who was having print moving easily. What did the vet say? Get a physio! So that was a waste of 100. I generally now get the vet after I've tried a physio/farrier etc. I don't think you can judge the wellbeing of a horse either from a few seconds of video. Op you have had some good advice so if I were you I would put it to good use and avoid becoming upset by returning to the thread or trying to justify yourself when clearly some posters just want to twist everything because they clearly are 'so experienced and know better'!

A thin horse older who has been seen to be stiff in the morning who has refused when this is unusual for him and has tripped while ridden knocking his rider out is not a job for a physio unless a vet has seen the horse first only a vet is trained to diagnose and in the the UK it's not legal for a physio to see such a horse without contacting a the vet first there may be many issues going on here and a vet is best placed to assess what's going on.

snooples
04-06-13, 11:46 AM
I think some posters are being quite harsh and frankly nasty and abusive. There is no need for it imo. I personally don't call the vet for every little thing otherwise I'd be bankrupt! If my horse is showing signs of stiffness I would consult a physio before a vet. Recently we got a vet to look at my pony who was having print moving easily. What did the vet say? Get a physio! So that was a waste of 100. I generally now get the vet after I've tried a physio/farrier etc. I don't think you can judge the wellbeing of a horse either from a few seconds of video. Op you have had some good advice so if I were you I would put it to good use and avoid becoming upset by returning to the thread or trying to justify yourself when clearly some posters just want to twist everything because they clearly are 'so experienced and know better'!

Thank you, im taking on board what everyone says and thanks for saying it in a nice way. :) I just cant help becoming upset as I try to do everything I can for my horse

my horse feels great to ride i knew he was a little bit stiff which is why I put him on the supplements. I didnt think he was in such a bad way that he needed the vet and physio but I was wrong and now il learn from that

Goldenstar
04-06-13, 11:55 AM
Snooples you have used HHO for one of the things it does well you have asked a question and got answers and thoughts from lots of different horse owners who don't know you so many of those thoughts are not sugar coated .
You don't need to feel bad the answers will have given you stuff to think about and I fear you are building up to a difficult desision .

snooples
04-06-13, 12:00 PM
Snooples you have used HHO for one of the things it does well you have asked a question and got answers and thoughts from lots of different horse owners who don't know you so many of those thoughts are not sugar coated .
You don't need to feel bad the answers will have given you stuff to think about and I fear you are building up to a difficult desision .

And I am glad for all the help Iv gotten and it has given me plenty to think about but its some of the posts have got me upset, its not about being sugar coated, im fine with people giving me advice straight out. its the ones who have gone out of the way to have personal digs at me saying i dont deserve to own him and im an idiot that hurt me the most

Wagtail
04-06-13, 12:14 PM
Snooples, the problem with your post, and why it got the negative responses it has, is that you are talking about a horse that is out competing one minute, and which has served you well for ten years, to implying that you need to PTS. There is no middle place. You have not even tried cutting down his workload and giving him a quieter life. It is all or nothing from your posts. He HAS to be galloping around jumping. He would HATE being a companion, etc etc. I always am astounded when I hear of horses that are being competed or ridden hard one minute and then when they can no longer do it, are on the scrapheap. I think if you had been more careful how you worded your posts, you would have had much more sympathetic replies.

And another thing, joint supplements take many weeks, even months to work.

BlackVelvet
04-06-13, 12:16 PM
Thank you for the nice reply, I do try my best with him and Im just learning as Im going as I said its my first older horse.
I cant stop crying over some of the replies so its nice to get one like yours :)

Like I said before, no one is an expert and they age to quickly that you tend to miss things sometimes. I had an older boy, I made my mistakes with him, certainly didnt mean I loved him any less. If I were you I would let him have a lovely summer doing what you want with him, hacking etc then make your choice in winter, either way you can only do your best for him. Dont take the comments about PTS too much to heart, you will know when its time.

Marydoll
04-06-13, 12:29 PM
Has the horse seen a vet, you need to know the full extent of what youre dealing with, it may not be arthritis, dont wait its not fair on the horse ?
My 30 yo worked until 24 was much leaner than usual over the winter with 2 big conditioning feeds daily, i'll be increasing to 3 times this winter, also her magnet rug and massage pad 3 times a week alternate nights and we (vet) upped her danilon to twice a day, she is on cosequin suppliment as well, she has arthritis in her hocks, and also had a stroke a few years back, she found last winter hard, i dont know if i'll put her through another although shes going out in the morning now back on her one danilon a day and is cantering up the field bucking and leaping like a 2yo, he sounds like hes needing a full management change and a definite change in career, you need to ask yourself if youre prepared to manage an older horse fwiw id look at all year turnout if its arthritis, but you wont know unless you have the vet out.

Kokopelli
04-06-13, 01:34 PM
OP I do feel for you. I'm going through a similar thing with my lad he's 15 and has been bad since November and sadly we can't work out a solution. The problem we're having now is whether he'll happily potter around the field or its kinder to pts.

Its good you're getting the vet make sure you don't forget anything when you tell him the problems you're having. Talk to him about bad winters. Personally i don't think any horse winters badly with the correct management. Perhaps he has an underlying issue which is causing him to drop condition. Is he wormed up to date? What is he fed over the winter, is he kept warm enough? My lad is a dreadfully poor doer, whilst out on loan in the summer he looked a hat rack let alone in the winter. But with adlib haylage, 3 feeds a day and sufficient warmth he looks brilliant.

Good luck with him, don't get too upset we all make mistakes he just needs a lot of TLC :)

Cherryade
04-06-13, 03:59 PM
I can give him an easy life while im still around until Sep it is after that the problem arises as I wont be here

:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Let me get this right, you aren't financially strong enough to get the vet out(often),cant afford livery somewhere else and you wont be here from September? Why on earth do you have a horse, what do you expect him to do all winter wait for you to pop back on him and go jumping again:(
As for the hacking if you only have ONE road wouldn't that mean lots more fields, bridle paths etc i see no reason why he wouldn't enjoy having a nice stroll even canter down a few.
As AM said you just want an excuse to have him put down, and ive said it before and will say it again you care more about the competing side of things than this horse-no problem with that just admit it hes a tool for you to use at your pleasure.:mad:

putasocinit
04-06-13, 04:15 PM
Dont you just love it when an owner can honestly say what a horse will want and not want to do. It must be wonderful to have that skill to read a horses mind. Let the gent retire in a field, cos that is what he would want to do, he has been a good servant.

snooples
04-06-13, 05:03 PM
:confused::confused::confused::confused:
Let me get this right, you aren't financially strong enough to get the vet out(often),cant afford livery somewhere else and you wont be here from September? Why on earth do you have a horse, what do you expect him to do all winter wait for you to pop back on him and go jumping again:(
As for the hacking if you only have ONE road wouldn't that mean lots more fields, bridle paths etc i see no reason why he wouldn't enjoy having a nice stroll even canter down a few.
As AM said you just want an excuse to have him put down, and ive said it before and will say it again you care more about the competing side of things than this horse-no problem with that just admit it hes a tool for you to use at your pleasure.:mad:

you dont have a clue, iv had this horse since I was 13 years old and we have grown up together. Im going back to uni in sep and will have massive bills for that along with no income
We dont even have bridleways in ireland and i cant just go riding in peoples fields.
Why the hell would i be looking for a reason to put my horse down, I love him!

Cherryade
04-06-13, 05:09 PM
you dont have a clue, iv had this horse since I was 13 years old and we have grown up together. Im going back to uni in sep and will have massive bills for that along with no income
We dont even have bridleways in ireland and i cant just go riding in peoples fields.
Why the hell would i be looking for a reason to put my horse down, I love him!

Because people have given you ideas, from a happy hacker to finding grass livery somewhere-but you respond with a negative attitude that its not good enough you either want him to be out jumping for you or you will have to get rid of him(loan him out). Your initial question was when do you know when its time to say goodbye-why was you even thinking of this if you LOVE him-i would have gone to the end of the earth to try and provide a solution before even thinking of this.

BlackVelvet
04-06-13, 05:23 PM
The OP came on here first to ask advice and plan for the future with an aging horse. I have not read anywhere that she claims she knows everything or that she doesnt love this horse! I think by saying she would consider PTS as an option she meant 'if' he went downhill anymore. By reading some of the comments im saddened by the almost bullying!

hula
04-06-13, 05:34 PM
OP my own oldie has slowed down significantly this year. He's in his 20s and has been diagnosed with cushings some months ago. Ive noticed a huge difference between this year and last year.

He's still a cheeky chappy and full of beans! But we have slowed down his physical work due to his health issues. He nannies my youngster, and is currently nannying another baby on the yard (he has found his calling). I'm happy that he looks happy. He's had a hard winter, but he's come round and ive just had a text to say he is racing round like an idiot in the field with his young buddies. Without cob I wouldnt be riding again, I wouldnt have jumped again. He's taught me to sit quiet and acquire a good seat (he's catapulted me out of the side door more times than enough), he knows every trick in the book and in the beginning took the Mick out of me.

I love him and respect him. He's given me my hobby back. When he's ready hes more than earned his retirement and/or his dignity which ever comes first.

Elliesmemory1
04-06-13, 05:36 PM
I dont think anyone is bullying, but the op has asked for advise and when people give that advise she puts more problems in the way. ie, she cant afford the vet, the horse only likes jumping not hacking etc etc.. I feel that she thinks its best to put the horse to sleep but is not being honest with herself about it.

starryeyed
04-06-13, 05:38 PM
I've read through the majority of the posts and so I'm not going to repeat what others have said - youve been given some really useful advice & a number of options to consider. I do agree that it's probably time to start slowing down, and worth a vet visit (just the one!) just so that you can have some professional advice from somebody who can see him in the flesh & who can advise you on the best route to take. The vet can look into mobility & can let you know if something like bute will help your lad as he ages - although supplements are fantastic, sometimes they are not enough on their own.
If you're concerned about him losing condition over the winter, is it possible for you to put him on retirement livery? They're not necessarily expensive yards (it's pretty much grass livery with supervision), and he'll get plenty of freedom of movement to help his joints (much more beneficial than being stabled for the majority of winter). He doesn't have to be completely retired to go to one - but it would be an environment suitable for the older horse where you would be able to go and see him / hack him out in a different location to the one you say he's bored with - and you could take him home over the summer months when you're not at uni and have time to spend with him?

snooples
04-06-13, 06:22 PM
I dont think anyone is bullying, but the op has asked for advise and when people give that advise she puts more problems in the way. ie, she cant afford the vet, the horse only likes jumping not hacking etc etc.. I feel that she thinks its best to put the horse to sleep but is not being honest with herself about it.

Iv said numerous times that il get the vet out asap and that Im more than happy to give him an easy few months and send him on loan for hacking in sep when im gone.
Im sick of people saying that Im avoiding the answers when I havent!!!!

snooples
04-06-13, 06:24 PM
I've read through the majority of the posts and so I'm not going to repeat what others have said - youve been given some really useful advice & a number of options to consider. I do agree that it's probably time to start slowing down, and worth a vet visit (just the one!) just so that you can have some professional advice from somebody who can see him in the flesh & who can advise you on the best route to take. The vet can look into mobility & can let you know if something like bute will help your lad as he ages - although supplements are fantastic, sometimes they are not enough on their own.
If you're concerned about him losing condition over the winter, is it possible for you to put him on retirement livery? They're not necessarily expensive yards (it's pretty much grass livery with supervision), and he'll get plenty of freedom of movement to help his joints (much more beneficial than being stabled for the majority of winter). He doesn't have to be completely retired to go to one - but it would be an environment suitable for the older horse where you would be able to go and see him / hack him out in a different location to the one you say he's bored with - and you could take him home over the summer months when you're not at uni and have time to spend with him?

Thanks for the reply, iv never heard of retirement livery and am not sure if e have any round here but it is definately something il look into. Loaning him would really be the best thing as with uni fees il already be struggling but il do whatever I need to

snooples
04-06-13, 06:27 PM
The OP came on here first to ask advice and plan for the future with an aging horse. I have not read anywhere that she claims she knows everything or that she doesnt love this horse! I think by saying she would consider PTS as an option she meant 'if' he went downhill anymore. By reading some of the comments im saddened by the almost bullying!

Some people just wont listen to me at all and keep going on about how i wont call out the vet or take on board any of the advice even though iv stated I will! But thanks for your comments, they do help when i feel like im being knocked down all over the place!
pts is only an option if i cant find anywhere for him this winter, id rather he didnt suffer through another one where he is.

Marydoll
04-06-13, 07:30 PM
When's the vet coming to see him ?