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Gorgeous George
25-09-08, 02:13 PM
Or do you have to have a 4x4? I would love to have my own transport, but when I got George one thing OH said was no lorries and definately not a new car to tow a trailer, and I didn't mind because I didn't imagine I would ever go to a show!!

We have a Citroen C4 (well we will if it ever gets repaired) 2 litre diesel and I would be looking at a single trailer.

My brain says it can't be possible as I don't think I've ever seen someone tow with a hatchback, but when you look at the weight of the box and horse it doesn't seem that bad.

Anyone got any experience?

Shipley
25-09-08, 02:17 PM
Some cars can tow It will say how much in their manufactures guide and then you need to work out trailer weight plus horse and see. If I am honest I think not but 2.0 D can tow horses my friend has a VW and that does so might be able

Gentle_Warrior
25-09-08, 02:22 PM
a 4x4 will give you a better time - up hills are far easier as their traction is miles better and more wheen grip to the road

SDH
25-09-08, 02:22 PM
Yes you probably could tow 1 horse in a single trailer with car. It depends on the car tho (and i don't know much about citeron c4's, LOL)
have a look at the parkers guide website - it has a towing weight guide - you can bung in expected weight of trailer and it will come up with list of cars that can/can't tow it.

Angua2
25-09-08, 02:22 PM
i have towed a HB505 with one horse with an octavia 1.8 TD, however, I much prefer towing with a 4 x 4.

You need to check your kerb weights and trailer weights etc and make sure that you are not going over the manufacturers reccomended limits. Through reseach for another thread it is not illiegal it is more you need to say within the confines of what the car is capable of inorder not to invalidate your insurance or burn out clutch or engine.

soph21
25-09-08, 02:22 PM
Theres someone at our local RC that tows a horse in a single trailer with an estate car, I think its an Audi or VW.

SDH
25-09-08, 02:24 PM
Oh just wanted to add - have you thought about getting said car & trailer off a wet/muddy showground? that is when you could run into problems

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 02:27 PM
Hi gg,
The towing limit for a C4 is 1200kg, which is 100% of its kerb weight anyway, so you are covered on both angles. It needs to be braked, which a horse trailer would be.

I would imagine your boy to weigh anywhere around 450-550kg, depending on weight variations, so that leaves you with about 700kg for the trailer. If you decide to put the tack in your vehicle then that also has to be deducted from the towing limit (as it is additional to the kerb weight), as do additional persons in the vehicle. So if your husband was to pop along to watch you for a day, you'd likely need to deduct 80ish and the saddlery another 50ish, so leaves you with about 550-600 for your trailer.

An IW401 (single trailer) weighs 770kg, so that would be a quarter of a tonne more than your limit http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Shipley
25-09-08, 02:27 PM
Just found it on the Citroen web and it says 1570 Max towing weight braked. so think no - sorry

single IFW trailer unlaiden weight it 1000Kg

RLF
25-09-08, 02:30 PM
lord no don't tow with a Citroen C4 http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 02:31 PM
Still looking on google and the towing limit of your C4 will depend on the model - so if it's diesel or petrol, injection or not, hdi etc... I have just looked at another model that will tow 1300kg, and the above poster says they can pull 1570 (which by my reckoning would mean you'd be safe with the trailer and George and some tack).

tendon_boot
25-09-08, 02:34 PM
Sorry to steal your post. Asking for a friend how much could a VW passat estate tow? many thnx Tizzy x

Darkly_Dreaming_Dex
25-09-08, 02:35 PM
My Subaru estate is a "normal " car but has 4x4 for muddy fields and is cheap to insure and run- If you have circa 20k then the new Subaru diesel is LUSH http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif It tows beautifully http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Baileyhoss
25-09-08, 02:36 PM
If it's a Citroen C4 Picasso Wagon 5dr SA 2.0DT, then the legal towing weight it 1500kg. Although you need to check your particular vehicle hand book to find out for certain.

George would be in the region of 600kg?, they say to allow 200kg for stuff plus 70kg per passenger and an ifor 505 is 1170kg, that would put you well overweight, however, the new IW 406 unladen is only 767kg, so that plus hoss will be 1367kg, so strictly speaking it will be legal if you really watch what you are carrying extra peopel & stuffwise.

It would be probs be cheaper to upgrade your car than to purchase a spiffing new iw though.

Gingerbird
25-09-08, 02:39 PM
My Dad used to tow 2 medium sized horses with his mondeo estates. There was never any problem, muddy fields were fine and the horse always had a smooth ride. That was a few years ago when lots of people did it!

pixie
25-09-08, 02:40 PM
http://www.cuddles.abelgratis.net/citroen.htm

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 02:44 PM
Tendon-boot,
I am getting anywhere between 1400 and 1800kg for the VW Passatt Estate, depending on the size of the engine. Much like with the C4, it depends on size and type of engine.

If you only want to tow a single, with a medium sized horse and minimum stuff then you should be ok. 770+500+200=1450kg.

Gorgeous George
25-09-08, 02:46 PM
our is the C4 hatchback 2.0 litre diesel HDi, it would be a single trailer something like the IW HB403 which I think weighs 770kg.

I guess it doesn't really look possible or safe does it, oh well you can only ask! Will have to keep smiling for lifts http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif not sure what I was going to buy this trailer with anyway http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sooty
25-09-08, 02:46 PM
Yes. You'll run the risk of having a hideous accident, and your car being pushed downhill by the trailer, or overturned, but you can certainly do it. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

jumpthemoon
25-09-08, 02:50 PM
If you had the Citroen C4 2.0 HDi which has a kerbweight of 1381kg, an Ifor single trailer HB403, weighing 767kg unladen, then put a 500kg horse in the trailer, that leaves you 114kg for tack, water, people etc. That would either put you over the kerb weight or very close to it, so I wouldn't recommend.

The recommended weights are that you should tow up to 85% of the vehicles kerbweight. It is legal to tow up to the kerbweight but not over it. The maximum towing weight on the car specs are misleading, as they are not the maximum legal towing capacity. It actually means that is the max weight the vehicle can move off with from a standstill on a 1:4(?) incline on a dry road.

Can't you get a small lorry? It's really not safe towing a large horse in a trailer with a car and you would be mad to risk yourself and your horse.

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 02:53 PM
gg, I think it is possible.

As per my post! I seemed to overlook the fact your car was diesel initially!!! Your car/model/engine type can pull 1500-1570kg. The trailer is 770kg. That leaves 800kg for George and your stuff. George (500ish) + stuff will never be more than 800kg!

I don't think I would do it because it would be quite a struggle, especially up hills. Also the trailer is bigger than the car, so like Sooty said, although kerb weight rules only apply to caravans which are unbraked, in those terms it would not be AS safe as a large 4x4 pulling a trailer.

little_flea
25-09-08, 02:57 PM
In Sweden hardly anyone has a 4x4 and everyone tows with "normal" cars - obviously big ones, up to weight, but I always found it a bit strange that hardly anyone seems to do that here. Makes so much more sense in terms of fuel economy.

SilverSkye
25-09-08, 03:04 PM
The weight you have to now legally take into account when calculating whether a car can legally tow a trailer is the mam of the trailer you are towing ( that is the maximum authorised mass) so regardless of what a trailer actually weighs empty.
The Mam of even the lightest 2 horse trailer is over 2 ton so the answer is no you cant tow it off your C4. I think you might get away with a single horse trailer but it would be very close.
I live right near a VOSA weigh bridge on a main road and they are having a field day with trailers at the moment so it is worth being 100% certain.

Theresa_F
25-09-08, 03:08 PM
You can with some of the larger cars.

I have a primera - 2 litre TD. I have the Bateson Derby which is a small and very light trailer and only tow Chancer who is under 500 k. I am in weight and the car has never struggled.

I do drive very carefully, plan A road and motorway routes if possible and allow large stopping distances - but then I would no matter what vehicle I was using.

Downside of the car is that I have to be careful of the venue - no deep rutted muddy tracks for me.

Now that we have Farra, we are going to review the trailer and vehicle - no way will she fit in the Derby or be towed by a car as she is 17 hands and a clydesdale. Alternatively we may just hire a box when we want to travel her.

wench
25-09-08, 03:09 PM
estate cars are more capable of towing, as the actual car itself weighs more

lexiedhb
25-09-08, 03:12 PM
Possibly not with a C4, but when I was young NOONE had 4x4 everyone towed with estates, mainly volvo's! So they could be used as the "normal" faimily car aswell and didnt cost the earth....... that was about 20 years ago though, but i'd still tow with a decent stamp of a volvo or the like.....

Alibear
25-09-08, 03:20 PM
Used to tow my lw rice with a 2l volvo estate, was very secure , plenty of power and didn't weave. But I did only ever tow with my 15.2 mare in the trailer.
Had an aquaintence who used to two a big trailer with two full up 17hh eventers with her 1.8l volvo estate, now that was scarey.
The big 4x4 are definitley best for the job but it doesn't mean that you can't do it other ways.

Gorgeous George
25-09-08, 03:24 PM
I would never ever put George or anyone else at risk and it is obvious that my car isn't up to the job, will have to try and talk hubby round!!

Cop-Pop
25-09-08, 03:50 PM
I have a Renault Megane MPV and it tows the pony (11.2) with no problems. It has towed the trailer with the horse in round the car park (she's 15.2 and quite light) but it didn't feel safe and I wouldn't do it on the roads.

BigBird146
25-09-08, 03:54 PM
Robinson's do a single trailer which I'm pretty sure is the same make (rebranded) as the Cheval Liberte one's, it weighs 590kg and has a GLW of 1400kg so that might do the job for you.
As others have said, 20 years ago hardly anyone had 4x4s and we all towed heavy Rice & Bahill trailers, don't recall anyone coming unstuck, although we did have to unload ours and lead them up a particularly steep hill once when my dads diesel Citroen gave up the ghost (but we do live in the very hilly Peak District)
My instructor tows a similar lightweight single trailer all over the place with her Golf diesel estate, no problems, although her horse is only about 15hh.

FigJam
25-09-08, 03:57 PM
Hi G_G, this kind of question always gets a range of responses!!!

I have recently found myself in a similar position, never thought I'd really want to get out and about, always been happy in the past to be a "happy hacker", but have recently had the urge to get out and enjoy takig my girl places.

However, we can't afford the upkeep/running costs of a big 4x4 (hefty tax. insurance etc as well as low mpg) and a lorry was a no-no for the same reasons. The compromise we found was a Ford Mondeo, 2004 reg 2.0tdi 6-speed gearbox 130bhp engine. This has more than enough power in the engine for pulling a single horse trailer and horse and the car has a long wheelbase/heavy kerbweight.

In our case;

Car kerb weight = 1505kg,
Manufacturer's max. towing weight stated as 1800kg,
Trailer unladen weight = 770kg (IW401, 3 yr old),
15.2 LW cobX weight = 550kg (generous guesstimate),

So the total weight in the trailer (being a single, there's no room for tack etc in it, so it's literally just horse, trailer and haynet!) is 1320kg or thereabouts. This is well within the car's kerb weight and with the powerful engine/lots of diesel torque, it tows really nicely and smoothly.

It also gets reasonable mpg around town for commuting etc (44mpg) and isn't too high a tax/insurance group. I'd really recommend considering this as an option. As someone else has mentioned, we do have to watch the parking conditions of places we want to go to, but as long as you're sensible about that, it should be fine.

FigJam
25-09-08, 04:09 PM
Meant to add that our second car is a C4 (although only the 1.6 tdi), and I would not be happy towing with that. The Mondeo is miles more suitable.

at work
25-09-08, 04:24 PM
It should be legal and safe - the safe tow limits appear to allow it weightwise -I've towed with a peugot 406 estate HDi, which should be similar. No problem with one average weight (550kg) horse on board http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Wouldn't have done two, or a real heavyweight, though

little_flea
25-09-08, 04:36 PM
Exactly! In Sweden they were all big Volvos and Saabs obviously...

Sooty
25-09-08, 04:38 PM
You are not allowing any weight for people, tack, water etc. Also, the recommended towing weight is 85% of the car's kerbweight. Your figures are under this, but as I say, you have things missins. Unless the car drives itself! Towing a caravan for example is a lot different from towing a 'live' load like a horse, and you really do need more weight. IMHO. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Sooty
25-09-08, 04:40 PM
Thing is, I have seen an estate car flipped over by the caravan it was towing. I would hate to see the carnage of a car flipped by a trailer, and the potential consequences for the horse inside. Personally, if I couldn't tow with a car which was well up to the weight, I'd stay put. But each to their own! Towing a horse is a lot different from towing a dead weight, stable load.

Divasmum
25-09-08, 04:42 PM
You can tow with some cars but may need to look at a very lightweight trailer such as the Cheval Liberte single one. I think Robinsons do a lightweight single as well. The car manual will have all the appropriate information in it.

FigJam
25-09-08, 04:45 PM
Sooty- was that reply to me or G_G?

Surely additional weight in the car (in the form of driver + passenger) is only helpful, as it makes the car's weight even heavier over the trailer's weight? Plus the additional weight in the car plus the towing weight is still well within the car's stated capability.

Also, the 85% is bandied about all the time and yes, the heavier the car is in relation to the towing vehicle, the better, but it's not a legal requirement and was actually published as a "rule of thumb" by the caravan club about 20+ years ago, relating to single axle (horse trailers are double axle) not-very-aerodynamic caravans which are not likely driven with the same caution and care as a horse owner transporting their precious cargo.

Sooty
25-09-08, 04:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Surely additional weight in the car (in the form of driver + passenger) is only helpful, as it makes the car's weight even heavier over the trailer's weight?

[/ QUOTE ]

Please tell me that is a joke. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif The towing capacity of a car is what the engine is capable of moving from A to B. More weight in the car reduces the ability of the engine to tow more behind the car. The car does not know where the weight is; it just has a finite ability to cope. As, perhaps more importantly, does the braking system. And the suspension. But if you think you are within the car's limits, go ahead. I am not the enemy, just pointing out some facts.

lexiedhb
25-09-08, 05:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Thing is, I have seen an estate car flipped over by the caravan it was towing. I would hate to see the carnage of a car flipped by a trailer, and the potential consequences for the horse inside. Personally, if I couldn't tow with a car which was well up to the weight, I'd stay put. But each to their own! Towing a horse is a lot different from towing a dead weight, stable load.

[/ QUOTE ]

Definately each to their own but in the 10 or so odd years i was in pony club everyone towed with cars (like I said big volvo's and the like) and i never ONCE heard of a car flip over.................

Alibear
25-09-08, 05:07 PM
THe only flip I have ever seen was a long wheel base defender.

I have no idea how that happened and luckily all was empty and waiting to be towed when I saw it.

A huge part of the saftey is down to the driving but you do have to make sure that the numbers add up.

I have also towed with an Austin Princess and a Ford Sierra 4x4.

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 05:09 PM
Actually fig, the car's kerb weight includes ONE 60-70kg driver and 7kg of luggage. Any additional passengers or luggage must be deducted from the car's towing capabilities. This is regardless of the 85% kerb weight guideline. So if your car can tow 3t like mine, but you have 2 80kg passengers and 40kg of luggage, then you need to deduct 200kg from the tow limit, which means you can only then legally tow 2.8t, which for my car is fine, because my horses and trailer are less than that. However, just thought I'd say that sooty is correct, that is how it works!

FigJam
25-09-08, 05:12 PM
But my point was that a lot of the issues over safety/stability come from the car weight:trailer weight ratio being too close to each other. Therefore more weight in car = more difference in weight between car and trailer and so less chance of "tail wagging dog" which causes the accidents you are talking about?

As I said, the car is more than capable of towing the weight we tow and the engine most certainly does not struggle, even on uphill stretches. The power and towing capability is an unrelated issue to the car vs trailer weight issue as far as I can see.

Sooty
25-09-08, 05:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]
In Sweden hardly anyone has a 4x4 and everyone tows with "normal" cars - obviously big ones, up to weight

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe that is why the UK has one of the best and most enviable road safety records in the world. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 05:19 PM
Surely you are contradicting yourself, though, because on one hand you say that the 85% rule was a rule of thumb for caravaners (because they are unbraked), which I agree with, but on the other hand you are saying adding to the car's weight makes towing safer. So on one hand you say the weight of the car in relation to the trailer is irrelevant and on the other you say that more weight in the car should make towing safer!

That is not the case. As sooty said and as is outlined on many a towing website, any extra baggage in whatever form in the car, must be deducted from the towing limit because the towing limit includes what the car can carry as well as what it can pull.

Carrying AND pulling to and above the car's kerb weight becomes more and more dangerous the higher you go towards and over the limit. It is fine to pull to your car's tow limit regardless of kerb weight, but don't add any passengers because they are included in the tow limit.

FigJam
25-09-08, 05:20 PM
Again, I mentioned that my car's stated towing capability is 1800kg. We tow ~1320kg, so still well within the stated maximum, even with additional passengers/tack etc. The MAM of the trailer is only 1450kg, so still well within the 1800kg capacity of the car. I did plenty of homework and maths on the combination.

FigJam
25-09-08, 05:23 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Surely you are contradicting yourself, though, because on one hand you say that the 85% rule was a rule of thumb for caravaners (because they are unbraked), which I agree with, but on the other hand you are saying adding to the car's weight makes towing safer. So on one hand you say the weight of the car in relation to the trailer is irrelevant and on the other you say that more weight in the car should make towing safer!

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I am contradicting myself. I said the 85% towload compared to kerb weight wasn't a legal requirement, but did agree that the bigger a difference there is between the two the better. Just that the 85% "rule" is a rule of thumb, not a law.

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 05:27 PM
And I agree with you about kerb weights not being the law. I think the closer you can stay to them the better, but on a braked trailer it's not really THE issue. All I was saying is that what sooty said is correct. I'm not saying that what you are towing is illegal or unsafe or out of your limit; I'm saying that sooty was correct when she said that the passengers and extra luggage are included in your tow limit. This was in response to your post in which you said that the more weight in the car the better it would be. Simply pointing out the facts as they stand.

FigJam
25-09-08, 05:27 PM
[ QUOTE ]
That is not the case. As sooty said and as is outlined on many a towing website, any extra baggage in whatever form in the car, must be deducted from the towing limit because the towing limit includes what the car can carry as well as what it can pull.

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, I've just checked a photo my husband sent me of the chassis plate on our car and the gross train weight stamped on it (max. weight including load in car + tow load) is marked as 3750kg for our car. I promise you, this is what is stamped on the car.

The amount of research I've done into this, usrely make my towing combination far safer on the road than many of the Freelanders you see out happily towing IW510s etc?

FigJam
25-09-08, 05:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
And I agree with you about kerb weights not being the law. I think the closer you can stay to them the better, but on a braked trailer it's not really THE issue. All I was saying is that what sooty said is correct. I'm not saying that what you are towing is illegal or unsafe or out of your limit; I'm saying that sooty was correct when she said that the passengers and extra luggage are included in your tow limit. This was in response to your post in which you said that the more weight in the car the better it would be. Simply pointing out the facts as they stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fair enough, I was relating it to my set up specifically, rather than a general view. Hope that makes sense. I'd love a big posh, brand new 7.5t lorry, but need to wait for my lottery numbers to come up, so my current arrangement is the best way for me to get out and enjoy my horse for now.

I guess I get a bit defensive on the topic, because I feel I've done so much research into it that it's frustrating when it feels like people are saying "oh you don't tow with a Navara/Warrior/Landcruiser, it's can't possibly be safe at all" or similar!

I probably put my horse more at risk when hacking out on the roads around the yard than I do when travelling. http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

LankyDoodle
25-09-08, 05:45 PM
Tell me about it! I hate road hacking. I don't necessarily you are risking your horse's life anymore than we are with a Sorrento! If you tried to tow with a metro thennnnnnn.....

minerva
25-09-08, 05:46 PM
mine is a 3ltr BMW estate and it can tow quite happily but it is not nice, it is too low where the tow bar is and the suspspention is so low i feel every little stone and the trailer just doesnt feel right like it does with the 4x4 - i only take one small horse with a Ifor Williams 505 and the kerb weight is 2 ton so i am well under - i can not go on soft ground at all either as it is rear wheel drive and just slips everywhere - there is no way i would use a smaller car than mine! and indeed with new bigger horsey i havnt towed

itsme123
25-09-08, 05:50 PM
You could tow a single trailer with a normal car but what people fail to understand is that they'll knacker the car in the process.

FigJam
25-09-08, 05:52 PM
I know- but car drivers and hacking are a whole different can of worms to open another day! http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Actually, since having had a tow bar fitted, I've become much more aware of how many cars do have tow bars and just how scary some of them look, I can only hope they're only towing a teeny little box trailer or trailer tent! You joke, but I have seen a metro with a tow bar!!! http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Gorgeous George
25-09-08, 06:09 PM
Quietly runs off to buy a few lottery tickets in the hope of being able to afford a new car / lorry....... http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

suzysparkle
25-09-08, 08:27 PM
Your vehicle will (somewhere) tell you what the maximum braked trailer weight is and that's what you should go by....legally anyway. As for the 85% rule....from a safety point of view ideally you shouldn't tow anything heavier than the vehicle itself. However, if you stuck to that rule (85% rule) very very few (of the large) 4X4's would be up to towing 2 big Horses in a trailer, if any for that matter.

If you are towing almost at the limit then consider the drivers experience, the roads you are on, and how far you are going. 4X4's are good but they aren't the be all and end all! I tow mainly with a Mercedes Sprinter van which is bigger than my trailer. I've towed with many vehicles (certainly most of the big 4X4's) and the van is a better towing vehicle. I towed out of mud not so long ago that had bogged down a Nissan Terrano and Mitsubishi Shogun.....and my van is rear wheel drive only!! I don't even feel hills (up or down). Mind you, it is the extra power model and I tow one Horse. Funnily though, I sometimes tow short distances (mainly to avoid wear) with a TD4 Freelander. They get slated on here but mine tows really well. I only go max 10 miles with it but then that's what I mean about considering other things.
Some big cars should be fine for the job......I'd want at least 200KG left on top of the weight of what I'm towing in terms of legal tow weight, and ideally towing no more weight than the vehicle. Both my vehicles (yes including the Freelander) adhere to this.
Hey, if you want scary....I saw someone towing a Batesaon Deauville with a Horse about 16hh in it with...............a Renault Clio (yes....a Clio, I know for 100% sure as my Mum used to have one) not so long ago!!!!!!!

eoe
25-09-08, 08:39 PM
GG,

The best thing I can suggest, which will save all questions, is too try and borrow a trailer, so long as your car has towbar and take to your local weighbridge to get the accurate weight of car and trailer it only costs about 5 per weigh, which isn't far from you, then get your weightape and measure george and from that you will get his weight, you will know your weight and you can weigh you tack then you will know how you stand with weights, speak to your local dealers who sell trailers, IW are very good on advice.

Coffee_Bean
25-09-08, 09:08 PM
We were planning on towing a single trailer with my 400kg horse in with our VW touran. It has a towing weight of 1500kg, so we would have been ok with a single trailer i think. Just got to persuade my dad to let me have a trailer.... http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif Also the cheval liberte trailer is lightest I think and about 600kg.

merlinsquest
25-09-08, 10:44 PM
Sell your car and get a Kia Sorento..... nice car and cheap too http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

hairycob
26-09-08, 07:09 AM
It's all very well people saying years ago everyone towed with estate cars but estate cars were built differently in the past & were much heavier.

lexiedhb
26-09-08, 08:55 AM
[ QUOTE ]
It's all very well people saying years ago everyone towed with estate cars but estate cars were built differently in the past & were much heavier.

[/ QUOTE ]

Erm yes but trailers were also a hell of a lot heavier!!!!!

LCobby
26-09-08, 10:00 AM
The old Rice farmers rear loads were not that heavy and the roads were less busy, far fewer Motorway miles as no Motorways builts, few dual carriageways or 40 tonne Eurolorries passing you at speed. And a heavier trailer is more stable.
The Old Volvo 245 estates, and simlar types were very heavy powerful cars, no need for fuel economy as petrol was four gallons for a pound! So roughly a shilling a litre , = 5 p per litre.

lexiedhb
26-09-08, 11:11 AM
LOL Cobby I wasnt talking about quite that far back!!!!!!!!!!

Sooty
26-09-08, 11:23 AM
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LOL Cobby I wasnt talking about quite that far back!!!!!!!!!!

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Trust me, that is not that far back... http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

mrdarcy
26-09-08, 01:27 PM
Having been in an accident in a BMW 3-series towing a trailer (trailer wagged - we jack knifed, it wasn't pretty) I would say be very very careful. Personally I wouldn't put my horse in a trailer now for love nor money - not even if it was being towed by a tank.

MizElz
26-09-08, 05:45 PM
Back in the day when no one worried about towing weights, we used to tow our ancient two horse Rice trailer with our Ford Sierra http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif When its clutch burnt out trying to tow uphill one day, we gave up and bought a 3.5 litre V10 Range Rover http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Friends of ours towed two horses behind their Vauxhall Cavalier, and before that, a battered old Montego http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Seriously though, I wouldnt tow with a C4. Have a look at things like the Mitsubishi Outlander, and perhaps the Subaru Forester. I know people who tow with both of these, and they love them - they're 'little' big cars http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Mithras
27-09-08, 01:05 AM
The rules which were introduced a few years ago which basically mean you cannot tow more than a single trailer with nothing other than a 4 x 4 get my goat. I do believe it was introduced due to European harmonisation and the UK Government should have negotiated an opt out as the UK towing market is different from most of the Continent. The UK market is dominated by 2 horse trailers, such as Ifor Williams, whereas on the Continent, single horse trailers predominate. Many people in the UK, like me, tow a double horse trailer with only ever one horse in it.

Anyway, in answer to your question, it probably will tow it, ie it will move successfully. Unfortunatley it won't be legal. My Jeep Grand Cherokee was stolen recently and I towed with my Mercedes 2.3 litre E class diesel saloon and it was absolutely excellent. I didnt get stuck, even in the mud (I have good tyres) and it had loads of torque to accelerate uphill on the motorway. It towed so easily (my horse is a 16.2 warmblood in an IW 505). It got much better fuel economy than the Jeep (27mpg instead of 19) and didn't feel overpowered when towing like the Jeep, hence it was much easier to keep it at a stable towing rate and my horse got a smoother ride.

I hate my damned 4 x 4 so much I wish I could still tow with a saloon car. If I had a choice (ie if it were legal) I would choose the saloon car, so much nicer to drive and tow with. Previously I towed with a Mercedes S class 3.2 litre diesel and it was sublime. Since it had limited slip differential and Mercedes are rear wheel drive anyway, it was surprisingly excellent off road. Sadly this model would be just a tiny fraction under the legal towing rules despite being just about the largest and heaviest saloon car on the market, meaning you cannot really tow a double horse trailer with anythign other than a 4 x 4, despite the fact that you might not really need it. Maybe a Maybach would be legal, possibly also a larger Bentley.

Say what you like about although flippin' piddly little cars towing caravans being legal - I think the Governemnt should crack down on them as you see so many of them overturned in high winds.

conniegirl
29-09-08, 11:53 AM
i've personaly seen a car flipped over by a horse trailer (double trailer with one horse in). I drove past it on a duel carriageway (the firebrigade and police had just arrived)

The local newspaper reported the next day that both the occupants of the car and the horse had died.
so if you want to tow with a bog standard car go ahead, but bare in mind you will likely be over the legal limit, you will be driving without insurance, you will be putting yourself, your horse and other road users in danger!